RED KOMODO vs GEMINI vs HELIUM COMPARISON

[Jon Dishler]

I am not sure where to put this but:DSMC2 AND WEAPON FIRMWARE (Beta)
RELEASE HISTORY
VERSION
7.4.0b1
|
New features include: "Improved color reproduction of daylight light sources"

I find the green tint with Helium is gone with this update! In fact auto white balance with the same Litepanel lights and white card used to be about -7 but now is +1 and I no longer see any green tint in shadows, seems like a game changer and might be helpful in balancing between cameras.

[Andrew Reese]

Are you talking about the RED RANGER HELIUM AND GEMINI FIRMWARE (BETA) that was just released on 8/28/20? Is this specifically for Ranger models or could I use this firmware to update my "non-ranger" gemini? What is the benefit if any in terms of improvements does anyone know?

https://www.red.com/downloads/red-ranger-gemini

[Les Hillis]

Well that's interesting.

"...DSMC2 AND WEAPON FIRMWARE (Beta) 7.4.0b1

Release Date 8/28/2020

This firmware supports DSMC2 MONSTRO, DSMC2 HELIUM, DSMC2 GEMINI, DSMC2 DRAGON-X, WEAPON 8K VV, WEAPON 8K VV Ana, WEAPON 8K S35, and WEAPON 6K CF cameras..."

So yes it can be applied to Gemini - https://www.red.com/downloads/dsmc2-gemini

And it does indeed change the colour of daylight sources more towards magenta by default.

Once you pull that magenta back to 'normal' though, the image still looks a little different than it did before, which I guess would be the "improved colour reproduction".

Thanks for the heads up Jon.

Edit - And thanks Tim for all these comparison and Komodo test videos!

[Jon Dishler]

Are you talking about the RED RANGER HELIUM AND GEMINI FIRMWARE (BETA) that was just released on 8/28/20? Is this specifically for Ranger models or could I use this firmware to update my "non-ranger" gemini? What is the benefit if any in terms of improvements does anyone know?

https://www.red.com/downloads/red-ranger-gemini

Yes, there is a version for Ranger and "non-ranger". I think the images, at least for Helium are much nicer skin tones and no green shift. For Gemini, would expect it to go a little more magenta, since it was closer to neutral to start with. I used to have to dial in -10 to my Litepanel Gemini's but now when set to 5600 (or 5000) they measure very neutral. No offset on lights and none needed in camera. I checked with a bunch of different Sigma Cine lenses, and they are all pretty neutral and within about 50 degrees from one another. I like this beta.

[Graeme Nattress]

Kelvin and Tint values that represent the white balance of the scene now use the Daylight locus rather than the Plankian locus. Kelvin values for light sources in the range 1700K to 4000K have their Tint behave has per the Plankian locus. Kelvin values 5000K and above have their Tint values behave as per the Daylight locus. For Kelvin values between these ranges there is a smooth interpolation of Tint behaviour. The purpose of the change to Daylight locus values for Kelvin and Tint is to represent natural and artificial daylight light sources with Tint values closer to zero, and also so default color temperature Kelvin and Tint settings in the daylight range have less visual green bias due to real-world daylight light sources appearing to have a slight green tint on the Plankian locus.

Graeme

[rand thompson]

Graeme,

Thanks alot for posting this it helps alot in knowing how to grade different scenes from different times of day and from different lighting with different color Temperatures!

[Les Hillis]

Thanks Graeme, makes sense.

And even more so after a quick search (shared here for anyone who's interested) -

"...In physics and color science, the Planckian locus or black body locus is the path or locus that the color of an incandescent black body would take in a particular chromaticity space as the blackbody temperature changes. It goes from deep red at low temperatures through orange, yellowish white, white, and finally bluish white at very high temperatures..." - Wikipedia

An explanation of the difference between the Planckian Locus and the Daylight Locus -

https://www.waveformlighting.com/tec...light-spectrum

[Jon Dishler]

Graeme and Les -- so so interesting, thanks for the explanation and the update to the firmware!

[Jordan Kennington]

Thanks for these!

[Andrew Reese]

Has anyone upgrade Gemini to this recent v7.4 firmware? If so how did the image change on Gemini Sensor specifically?

Overall I have been really happy with the color reproduction and standard tint settings SOOC that I am getting with firmware v7.3 on Gemini and fear that firmware v7.4 may push the Gemini sensor too far towards magenta as the image on v7.3 is already pretty neutral to my eyes and sometimes only requires a (- 1-2 green tint) to balance neutral. Sometimes I even like a little hint of green with my Gemini and Leica-R's and leave it alone as it reminds me more of Alexa.

I find that my Komodo ST has less green tint than typical with DSCM2 (a lot less than Helium) but in turn falls way more towards magenta overall (+ 2-5 magenta tint more than my Gemini with v7.3) and right now I have been having to dial the Komodo to (+ 2-3 green tint) to balance with Gemini close to neutral. I still probably prefer color out of Gemini with v7.3 over Komodo so I would like to know if DSCM2 firmware v7.4 is going to push the color reproduction of Gemini more in line with what I am getting out of Komodo?