Thread: RED KOMODO my thought :)

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  1. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    Luigi,


    Arri sample with Highlights recovered against Red Komodo. I still see Magenta and Blue pop up in the "Neutral" colors of the Komodo when match almost identically against the Arri Alexa Mini LF.


    Arri Alexa Mini LF




    Red Komodo


    Alexa Mini LF is blowing the Komodo away in these shots. Dynamic Range is far superior. Look at the Shadow detail on the couch, under the stairs and the highlight detail in the window. You can see detail in the highlights in the mirror on the Alexa, whereas they are all but lost in the Komodo image. The Komodo doesn’t even come close. It might not be what you want to hear, but gotta keep it real.
    Last edited by Han Vogen; 08-11-2020 at 04:46 AM.
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  2. #32  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    I think we need to be realistic here. First of all, this is a brand new sensor, and not derived from Helium, etc (as it's a global shutter sensor, so it's inherently unique). It's pixel pitch is different from any other RED sensor.

    Secondly, obviously it's not going to have the DR of a Mini LF, which has the greatest DR of any camera on the market (and is also one of the most expensive).

    RED has been pretty clear that Komodo will have good DR, but won't match even Gemini or Monstro.

    What matters from this test is the fidelity. Komodo as a B cam appears highly gradable, and seems to match Alexa well out of the box.

    That alone is going to be valuable to a lot of DP's and producers.

    And...it has a global shutter (which for certain VFX and Green Screen shots, makes it a better option than an LF).

    I can see Komodo being on lots of jobs (it's affordable enough that a lot of folks have access to it, and can bring it to set).

    It's a small camera that can be very useful.

    Not sure what there is to complain about.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    I think we need to be realistic here. First of all, this is a brand new sensor, and not derived from Helium, etc (as it's a global shutter sensor, so it's inherently unique). It's pixel pitch is different from any other RED sensor.

    Secondly, obviously it's not going to have the DR of a Mini LF, which has the greatest DR of any camera on the market (and is also one of the most expensive).

    RED has been pretty clear that Komodo will have good DR, but won't match even Gemini or Monstro.

    What matters from this test is the fidelity. Komodo as a B cam appears highly gradable, and seems to match Alexa well out of the box.

    That alone is going to be valuable to a lot of DP's and producers.

    And...it has a global shutter (which for certain VFX and Green Screen shots, makes it a better option than an LF).

    I can see Komodo being on lots of jobs (it's affordable enough that a lot of folks have access to it, and can bring it to set).

    It's a small camera that can be very useful.

    Not sure what there is to complain about.
    Based on the Zyla charts posted, Komodo seems to be pretty much on par with Gemini and Helium for DR. Might be half stop difference. Exceptional for a camera in its price range.
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les Hillis View Post
    Just an example of a basic single node grade applied to each -




    They could be matched better, but look alright in their own ways imo.

    Thanks Luigi.
    Can you share this grade? This looks fantastic for skin on the komodo
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  5. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Han Vogen View Post
    Alexa Mini LF is blowing the Komodo away in these shots. Dynamic Range is far superior. Look at the Shadow detail on the couch, under the stairs and the highlight detail in the window. You can see detail in the highlights in the mirror on the Alexa, whereas they are all but lost in the Komodo image. The Komodo doesn’t even come close. It might not be what you want to hear, but gotta keep it real.
    It might not be what you want to hear, but I still prefer Komodo's image over Alexa's because the shades of color regarding the walls and the wall/pillar on the right side show all more or less the same warm/magenta tint, whereas Alexa's showing everything from slightly greenish (not so obvious in this grade) to warm to blueish tint, which seems to be more difficult to correct in post. Sure, we all can see the blown highlights (window) in Komodo's image, but it seems to me that he had to pull down the hightlights quite a bit to get the outside so clearly visible. I might be wrong with this, though.
    Anyway, it seems to me that the two camera's can be matched very well, when corrected/equalized a bit more. What I noticed immediately, was that Alexa's image looks much more dynamic (colorful), whereas Komodo's image is rather flat, especially when comparing the shadows. In terms of dynamic (look at the orange cushion for example) and shadows (stairs, couch), it seems much more like a grading issue, which can be equlalized better than that to match the sensors to eachother.
    Back then, as Jarred posted the DR comparison between Komodo and Helium, everyone could see that change from Heliums/RED's "classic" greenish tint to almost neutral, but slightly too warm in Komodo's case. Nevertheless, Komodo shows the most neutral image, compared to its siblings, IMHO.
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  6. #36  
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    Here are those two overexposed shots pulled back down to 'normal', but with the windows still blown -





    Here are the same shots pulled down to show the actual difference between how and how much they're clipping -





    And here are the same shots but with the highlights pulled down using the HL (-61) & Camera RAW (-100) settings in Resolve -





    That's just to show the actual difference between them at the point those corrections start to mess with the rest of the image, not to say that's a fix for overblown windows.

    Which is all just to say, I think the extra highlight retention you get with the Alexa isn't that huge in reality. It's there, but if you're playing in that area you're probably going to be relying on more than that to save, correct or protect your highlights anyway, so...does it really make that much of difference?
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  7. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Hillis View Post
    Which is all just to say, I think the extra highlight retention you get with the Alexa isn't that huge in reality. It's there, but if you're playing in that area you're probably going to be relying on more than that to save, correct or protect your highlights anyway, so...does it really make that much of difference?
    Nope. Thanks for posting. That's exactly what I was suspecting all along. What a fantastic little camera.
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  8. #38  
    REDuser Sponsor Martin Stevens's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this, Luigi.

    Your continued contributions to this forum are awesome!!!

    :)
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    Martin Stevens

    President and Founder of Glidecam Industries, Inc.
    Producer and Director at Metaphoric Pictures Corporation.
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Orlandi View Post
    Can you share this grade? This looks fantastic for skin on the komodo
    Thanks. I would and would like to, but it wouldn't really be any use outside of the workflow it was part of and the frame it was specifically adjusted for, sorry.
    Last edited by Les Hillis; 08-11-2020 at 01:22 PM.
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  10. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas B. View Post
    It might not be what you want to hear, but I still prefer Komodo's image over Alexa's because the shades of color regarding the walls and the wall/pillar on the right side show all more or less the same warm/magenta tint, whereas Alexa's showing everything from slightly greenish (not so obvious in this grade) to warm to blueish tint, which seems to be more difficult to correct in post. Sure, we all can see the blown highlights (window) in Komodo's image, but it seems to me that he had to pull down the hightlights quite a bit to get the outside so clearly visible. I might be wrong with this, though.
    Anyway, it seems to me that the two camera's can be matched very well, when corrected/equalized a bit more. What I noticed immediately, was that Alexa's image looks much more dynamic (colorful), whereas Komodo's image is rather flat, especially when comparing the shadows. In terms of dynamic (look at the orange cushion for example) and shadows (stairs, couch), it seems much more like a grading issue, which can be equlalized better than that to match the sensors to eachother.
    Back then, as Jarred posted the DR comparison between Komodo and Helium, everyone could see that change from Heliums/RED's "classic" greenish tint to almost neutral, but slightly too warm in Komodo's case. Nevertheless, Komodo shows the most neutral image, compared to its siblings, IMHO.

    Are you descussing the graded shots or the raw files. Red has 16 differrnt ways to render highlights as their default rwgrgb curves. So sure you can do a comparison between tge two for highlights but its important then to look at the raw file and see whats available and not pass judgment from looking at the images when they are graded.
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