Thread: The next step for Red cameras: programmability

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  1. #1 The next step for Red cameras: programmability 
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    For some reason I cannot fathom, and will probably never understand, I cannot post this text on this forum, no matter what I do. So I've put it on Skynet instead.

    The basic gist is this: Red cameras should be able to be programmed to perform tasks that are not possible with normal camera settings. For example, shooting groups of frames at different shutter angles.

    https://siasky.net/AAC3vx9GTzbI5Mzsx...F0A0UjtLtwArHg
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  2. #2  
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    Looking at what RED have done with the Komodo (and the Ranger models), and seeing some of the feedback, I think it'd be interesting to see RED's take on a dedicated 'Special-Effects' camera.

    And now that you mention it, programmability could be one of its features.

    For the regular camera's and end-uses though, I'm not sure adding even more complex and special-use features would be worth it.
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    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    You can do this with RED Command Protocol fyi. Sort of what it's for. Komodo is now built around RCP2, which is different from DSMC and DSMC2, but same general concept.
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  4. #4  
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    Well there you go, thanks for the info Phil.

    Okay Karim, over to you.
    Last edited by Les Hillis; 09-20-2020 at 08:20 PM.
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    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les Hillis View Post
    I think it'd be interesting to see RED's take on a dedicated 'Special-Effects' camera. .
    I think this concept goes beyond just being a "special effects camera". I've been vocal for a long time about the possibilities of tools dedicated to all the tedious post-work that we do today. Yes, there are workarounds and there are gyro-data buried within there and that can be used by those tech-savvy in coding, but that is nowhere close to what can be done with designing a camera with these tools integrated. It's like the usual physician doctors and psychology doctors problem, where the physician only talks about the physical problems and the psychology doctor only talks about the mental problems. Instead of drawing a combined conclusion, the patient gets bounced back and forth between them.

    Just do a camera that incorporates all the things that take up a large part of post. Stabilization, tracking, 3D cameras, depth measurements etc. etc.

    If we are to talk about a truly modern camera system we need to talk about all the other stuff besides sensors and resolution.

    Pure camera location and settings in the metadata.

    Have the camera record everything, focal length, focus shifts, camera position data.
    Then in post, let there be a FBX or virtual camera export so that any take will always have a perfect virtual camera component.
    This will help with everything from 3D visual effects, tracking objects in the scene, post-stabilization etc. etc. Also, include a slider in the RAW data for stabilization.
    Just do it, the workarounds pulling gyro data out of the R3D files are not the same as being able to just slide gootage over to super stable when color grading in Resolve.
    Think SteadXP, but with Apple "just works" design.

    Send camera position data wirelessly
    Take the first camera tracking note and apply sending that data wirelessly on a per frame basis. We are slowly moving over into using virtual studios like they did in "The Mandalorian".
    Having position data from the camera on a per frame basis synced with the background will ease that workflow.

    Auto-Focus for cinema work
    Push for a true cinema grade autofocus system. Something that works together with remote focus pulling.
    Being able to track faces and eyes, even saving someone's face for the camera to only track one person in a crowd (as long as it can recognize that person).
    Being able to track in different step sizes, for large positioning of focus and then using a remote focus wheel for the minor adjustments.
    Also, the ability for the AF to drive a gear for cinema lenses. Being able to use it with both vintage and new lenses that does not have internal motors.


    Depth data

    This is like a "duh" idea in my opinion. Who ever makes a cinema grade camera with this function would dominate much of the industry.
    If we both have in-camera virtual camera tracking for each take and at the same time we have depth data, that would mean game over for green screens.
    Imagine being able to just position stuff in post, in any part of the image, being able to have essentially tracker marks in 3D space all done and recorded.
    Just take footage of someone standing in the street and start changing the background or add VFX and CGI characters, everything... just works.

    Wireless sound
    Oh, why, oh why isn't this just a feature? Why is it taking the industry so long to just put it inside the camera?

    Wireless timecode
    The same

    Sensor stabilization
    DSLRs have it, having it on a cinema camera would seriously give an edge to those wanting the mid-way between gimbal and handheld.
    Together with a lens that has IS and a gimbal or steady, you have perfection for super-stabilization.


    There are so much stuff that could be done to revolutionize the workflow of any production for even the most minor adjustments and VFX.
    While giving the power to indie productions to incorporate more VFX since a lot of budget goes into all that tedious VFX work that is just so unnecessary compared to the creative parts of it.
    But there seem to be too many excuses as to why not to include this into modern cameras.

    To that I say... Just do it
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    You can do this with RED Command Protocol fyi. Sort of what it's for. Komodo is now built around RCP2, which is different from DSMC and DSMC2, but same general concept.
    I had no idea. And I read these forums daily!

    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post

    Just do a camera that incorporates all the things that take up a large part of post. Stabilization, tracking, 3D cameras, depth measurements etc. etc.
    I like that idea. After all, these are digital cameras. What is progress for? Why stop at merely replacing the film gate with a sensor? Edit: light field is going to be relevant, too. Nobody wants dual lenses for stereo or for dynamic DOF.

    Photographers don't like it when you point out that DSLRs are going away, and so are mechanical shutters. I don't know why - almost all these doubters use digital cameras. I guess they don't like it when progress goes beyond their imagination? Too much change? Who knows.
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  7. #7  
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    Loving what RED has done with the Ranger and the Komodo. DSMC2 was great too, I just used it a little less.

    Although, before they innovate the next best thing, would love to see a few loose ends get tidied up with their current line up.


    We are running a poll on reduser, seeing if other users are interested in getting more image control settings for the OLED EVF. I've found the black levels to be quite high, and was surprised that an OLED screen had grey instead of black. What settings do you all use? Was hoping the OLED EVF would be like a little movie theater, but it looks rather drab and unnatural. The 1080 resolution is great though. it is sharp, just quite low contrast. Most EVF's have some form of contrast in addition to brightness setting. the RED just has brightness.

    Here is the poll if anyone else is interested in getting an image control setting or two added:
    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...-settings-poll

    keep hoping I just have no idea what I am doing and missed the settings.
    Last edited by James Sielaff; 09-27-2020 at 07:52 PM.
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