Bm12k vs Komodo

[Andrew Dease]

Supposedly an outfitted Komodo is $8k which ic CLOSE TO the price of the BM12k.

BM12k is a massive hit or miss some footage looks thin and crappy, the initial release footage looked great. Komodo is all over the place also but Red is a damn good camera no matter which one you use.

Basically fishing for thoughts on this but mostly if Phil would talk about the BM camera and if it holds a flame to the R3D Graeme magic.... I never used a black magic and I am not convinced it looks good in general. Compared to a Red....

But feature wise different story if it matters.

[paulcurtis]

Basically fishing for thoughts on this but mostly if Phil would talk about the BM camera and if it holds a flame to the R3D Graeme magic.... I never used a black magic and I am not convinced it looks good in general. Compared to a Red....

What will you be using both for? Different tools for different jobs and there's no one ultimate do it all camera. And what's your post workflow like? Reading through the Komodo beta group it's obvious there are a lot of people who jumped on the ST models who, by their own admission, aren't experienced at post workflow with RAW and so on - meaning they're not really getting the eco system.

If you need to punch in because you're doing single camera interviews and need different shots - then that BM could be for you. If you're rigging to a car bouncing through explosions than that's Komodo.

Thin and crappy is most likely down to the operator but at the same time i think it's true that Komodo has the better range if it does match a Helium as suggested.

And asking in a Red group... Well i've nothing against BMD but i'd side with Red. Took me years to work my way into the eco system and now i can just shoot without all the faffing about that i used to have to go through with other systems.

Komodo is my next cam. Global shutter (essential for some of my vfx work), Matching range to Helium, Form factor for hand held and convenience, 6K is a good res and also video transmission over wifi i read - that will save some directors monitor nonsense too.

I'm interested where DSMC3 will go after this too!

cheers
Paul

[Robert Hofmeyr]

I'm in a similar boat Andrew. Really want a Komodo, but clients pushing for 8K and slowmo and I cant afford a Helium. Still waiting for more tests and reviews of the Ursa 12K, but it looks like it is an incredible camera for the price. And BM files do seem a lot easier to work with. I'm toying with the idea of getting both (if I can scrape together the cash) - Ursa for long lens work from a vehicle or tripod, Komodo for hiking/gimbal/mounting, so I'd be interested to hear how easily they could be matched in post.

[Andrew Dease]

Some recent unboxing & footage of black magic looked horrendous. Also I don’t buy the push in on the image resolution concept UNLESS STABILIZING.

That being said I am all Red but for those of us who have to purchase carefully and thoughtfully who can argue with the BM. You can’t.

But if the work won’t look as good as a Komodo is part of what I’m saying.

Realistically I’d go Komodo then BM and have both but as you say DSMC3, but red haven’t to public knowledge worked out a sensor that doesn’t crop. Crop on helium sucked but helium was a f*****g gorgeous image.

[Andrew Dease]

Point is - SPEC WISE BM12 wins or obliterates Komodo. But IMAGE WISE and R3D is incredible, does the Komodo obliterate the BM12k.

That’s the tough call... also Komodos are swamped they are going to be everywhere, so everyone will have ‘that image.’

[Misha Engel]

Just wait for "real" reviews on both. Then rent one to test it. etc...

[paulcurtis]

Realistically I’d go Komodo then BM and have both but as you say DSMC3, but red haven’t to public knowledge worked out a sensor that doesn’t crop. Crop on helium sucked but helium was a f*****g gorgeous image.

The image is 90% the person behind the camera (shooting and post) and 10% the camera as you know. I'd invest in lenses, lights and the tools rather than just a camera IMHO. For example you get a much nicer colour out of a hive light than your standard RGB on people. It's more expensive, but it's a factor that would make your images look better, more than the difference between Komodo vs BMD.

Also i have had no issues ever with the crop factor of the Helium. Often i go to that over full frame anyway, in terms of shooting and pulling focus the DOF on a normal S35 is a bit more realistic. So i don't think crop factor of Komodo is an issue at all. I have a 12mm cine - would never need wider than that.

As i said you can't compare global with rolling shutter in most circumstances.

Just get the Komodo, sounds like you're there anyway..

cheers
Paul

[Jamil Stubbs]

Supposedly an outfitted Komodo is $8k which ic CLOSE TO the price of the BM12k.

BM12k is a massive hit or miss some footage looks thin and crappy, the initial release footage looked great. Komodo is all over the place also but Red is a damn good camera no matter which one you use.

Basically fishing for thoughts on this but mostly if Phil would talk about the BM camera and if it holds a flame to the R3D Graeme magic.... I never used a black magic and I am not convinced it looks good in general. Compared to a Red....

But feature wise different story if it matters.

I do not think the verdict is out yet for either of these camera's. And these are quite different spec'd cam's. Looks like you already have your mind made up tho...

[Alexander_Klose]

Funny that you opend that thread Andrew. I´m in exactly the same debate with the team. We own an 8k Helium and used it alongside with a Sony A7Riii as a bcam which worked ok if we needed a second angle from a spot the Helium could not reach.
Than the Pockets came out. We bought the 4k which I personally found great color wise but DR could have been more if you are used to Red. Also speedboosters and MFT is not my favourite. After the 6k came out I bought that one too and oh man, what a beautiful camera.
Crazy formfactor but I can live with that. A shame that braw is not as smooth as r3d. I love the smaller formfactor and unsing it in general.
After Komodo was announced I directly was into switching out the 6k for komodo.
But now BMD came with the 12k.

I want a set of 2 good cameras. One high Res and Productionready. The other small and portable to hang, gimbal and move arround easy.

I think you can not compare the two. So in your state, check what will be the main porpuse for the camera.
A lot on tour, traveling and working with small to no crews? get a Komodo
More studiowork and locked of shoots like, jibshots, controlled gimbal work, product shots, animations etc? 12k all the way.

We do both and this year we ran arround a lot. Did the first two gigs on the Helium which is nuts if you don´t have a director or a storyboard, to be honest.
Thats why I needed something small and bought the pockets.

But we also do product shots and studio work where Helium is awesome. The detail on the subject with jibshots 5 Meter in the air with a wideangle lens is amazing in 8k.
But with 12k that will be even more dope I guess and thats why we started that discussion.


Qouestion is,
Either ditch the Helium for the 12k or the Pocket for Komodo?!

What do you guys think?

[Björn Benckert]

I like both. But as I see it they are very different tools. The 12K BM can do things Komodo will never do. And yes, Komodo is capable of things the 12k BM will never be able to.

Personally I feel that I´m not really missing much of the 12k BM capacity. It can shoot super high res images with a slightly more narrow DR than Monstro. But yes, its not global shutter and its not tiny.

If you need super high resolution, doing imax things and such I think then the 12k BM might be a good otpion. But if you aim for UHD mastering then I would opt for Komodo. The small formfactor, IOS wireless, autofocus, and most of all global shutter is what makes it interesting.