Thread: Proper HDR workflow

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  1. #31  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Dolby Institute tutorial series 7-12












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  2. #32  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    So According to these guys in Part 2, this is the Color Management Setup





    I guess that the areas in GREY are because I couldn't generate the METADATA to enable them and change the settings. Or, because changing those settings require a PAID license.





    You can also change it to DCI4K

    Last edited by rand thompson; 10-16-2020 at 08:52 PM.
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  3. #33  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    What I can confirm is that Resolve has massive problems of exporting H265 with proper HDR working. So I can't use HDR for things going to YouTube and playback in the TV directly also doesn't work.
    However, when I export a DNxHR 444 it will play correctly.

    So, why doesn't H265 exports work properly?

    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    There is a lot to unpack there. The main being, that they are saying, that DolbyVision master can be delivered without the DolbyVision license. This is true in THEORY, but in practice ALL networks require a proper REC-709 tone mapping, that must be reflected in the companion XML. Dolby instructor at the day long DolbyVision seminar, which is included with the annual license purchase, specifically mentioned this in the course. He mentioned, that in order to pass DolbyVision QC requirements, in the past some users were introducing a small, but visually imperceptible to the eye tone mapping trims in order to satisfy the network requirement for dynamic trims. Unfortunately for those users, networks got wise to that trick and now easily can identify it and kick it back. And that is taking into an account, that you already have a DolbyVision license. If you don't have it, then you can't even pass the first hurdle. Also, because of the ever popular LG OLED screens, which operate at 600 nits brightness, majority of clients require a second HDR PQ trim for 600 nits in addition to 100 nits for REC-709. The bottom line, if you need to deliver a DolbyVision master to a network, you will absolutely need to get a DolbyVision license, there is no way around that.
    This is what I figured. So, technically, since I can't access the adjustments for tone mapping, I have to essentially do it manually with output nodes in the grade on each shot? Not saying that it will grant me a Dolby Vision stamp, but that Dolby Vision even in its free form feels much easier to handle than focusing on some other HDR standard. Basically working at the highest standard seem to help to trickle down to the others more smoothly even without the licensed dedicated tone map tools.
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  4. #34  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    What I can confirm is that Resolve has massive problems of exporting H265 with proper HDR working. So I can't use HDR for things going to YouTube and playback in the TV directly also doesn't work.
    I'd recommend checking your export settings to ensure either through H.265 or MOV wrapped H.265 you are exporting the correct metadata.

    I can confirm H.265 HDR works in TVs, YouTube, and abroad.
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  5. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I'd recommend checking your export settings to ensure either through H.265 or MOV wrapped H.265 you are exporting the correct metadata.

    I can confirm H.265 HDR works in TVs, YouTube, and abroad.
    I as well. However, when you confront Resolve with a request to change container type in H.265 if will unhelpfully change you to H.264, which will unhelpfully change Main10 to Main. When you fix what Resolve broke by changing H.264 back to H.265, you might have missed that you also need to revert Main back to Main10. Which is why, once you ever in your life actually get the render output parameters correct in Resolve, you should save them to a well-named preset and only use the preset for rendering henceforth. Fiddling with parameters doesn't "just work" in Resolve, unless you commit to always checking every single parameter before adding to the render queue (including ones you didn't think you changed).

    I'm sure that Resolve 17 will be wonderful whenever it is released, and I can only hope that they fix its strong tendencies to militate against HDR workflows in both subtle and unsubtle ways.
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  6. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    What I can confirm is that Resolve has massive problems of exporting H265 with proper HDR working. So I can't use HDR for things going to YouTube and playback in the TV directly also doesn't work.
    However, when I export a DNxHR 444 it will play correctly.

    So, why doesn't H265 exports work properly?







    This is what I figured. So, technically, since I can't access the adjustments for tone mapping, I have to essentially do it manually with output nodes in the grade on each shot? Not saying that it will grant me a Dolby Vision stamp, but that Dolby Vision even in its free form feels much easier to handle than focusing on some other HDR standard. Basically working at the highest standard seem to help to trickle down to the others more smoothly even without the licensed dedicated tone map tools.
    It does work, both playback to TV with dolby vision via HDMI and render outputs. My guys here been doing it for quite some time. The LG TV picks up the dolby vision tag if it's set up right and confirms and shows the dolby vision HDMI signal.
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  7. #37  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I'd recommend checking your export settings to ensure either through H.265 or MOV wrapped H.265 you are exporting the correct metadata.

    I can confirm H.265 HDR works in TVs, YouTube, and abroad.
    I've checked almost every single thing in the export tab. So I'm not sure what else I can change. If the workflow color science and gamma tags on the output match the grade and the same settings used in any other mastering format like DNxHR 444, then it should be the same on H265 exports. Right now, if I hit the 100 nits tone mapping in the Dolby Vision settings it looks awful (linked to images earlier of this) and exactly like the H265 exports.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tiemann View Post
    I as well. However, when you confront Resolve with a request to change container type in H.265 if will unhelpfully change you to H.264, which will unhelpfully change Main10 to Main. When you fix what Resolve broke by changing H.264 back to H.265, you might have missed that you also need to revert Main back to Main10. Which is why, once you ever in your life actually get the render output parameters correct in Resolve, you should save them to a well-named preset and only use the preset for rendering henceforth. Fiddling with parameters doesn't "just work" in Resolve, unless you commit to always checking every single parameter before adding to the render queue (including ones you didn't think you changed).

    I'm sure that Resolve 17 will be wonderful whenever it is released, and I can only hope that they fix its strong tendencies to militate against HDR workflows in both subtle and unsubtle ways.
    Yea, I created a preset with the correct basic settings, but I always double-check everything for every test export.

    Unfortunately, I'm at a loss as to why it behaves the way it does.


    Here are two screens where I choose tone mapping at 100 nits and 2000 nits. Look at the scopes. The tone mapping should not expand, nothing else in the tone mapping settings expands anything, they put the grade under each listed nits limit, 600, 1000 etc. But 100 nits looks like that and the H265 export, even with HDR settings correctly applied in the export panel, looks the same.
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  8. #38  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Christoffer,

    From what I understand from the DOLBY VISION Videos, You set the "Target" for the Nit Brightness of the HDR display the video will be viewed on. Next when you run an "AUTO" "ALL" Analysis, the L1 metadata will automatically include a 100Nit SDR Trim. To gain access for additional trim capabilities, you would need a License for L2 metadata. And although this will be for REC2020, you might want to limit the OUTPUT to D65.

    Last edited by rand thompson; 10-20-2020 at 02:06 PM.
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  9. #39  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    Christoffer,

    From what I understand from the DOLBY VISION Videos, You set the "Target" for the Nit Brightness of the HDR display the video will be viewed on. Next when you run an "AUTO" "ALL" Analysis, the L1 metadata will automatically include a 100Nit SDR Trim. To gain access for additional trim capabilities, you would need a License for L2 metadata. And although this will be for REC2020, you might want to limit the OUTPUT to D65.
    Yes, but the problem is that even without the license, the basic tone mapping should work and when putting it to 100 nits, it should not react like in the images I showed. All other tone mappings work as they should, but 100 nits (rec709) just expands everything in the scopes to oblivion and the footage looks totally wrong. This is the same result as I get when trying to export a H265 with proper HDR export settings. So either I have some settings wrong or there's a serious bug in version 16.2 or whatever the latest update is.
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  10. #40  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Christoffer,


    What projects settings did you decide to go with?


    And do you have this enabled in "Preferences" for accurate scope readings.



    Also these were the Project settings the DOLBY VISION Videos suggested.







    Last edited by rand thompson; 10-20-2020 at 07:08 PM.
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