Thread: Proper HDR workflow

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  1. #21  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Just trying some Project settings. I don't have a HDR monitor to check if one even looks correct.


    If I use Dado's HDR settings with "Output Color Space" of "ST.2084 1000nits" I get RED Mathematical IPP2 Gamut Mapping and I get the image below.



    Or this with the same resulting image







    If I use Dado's HDR settings with "Output Color Space" of "REC2100 ST2084" I don't get RED Mathematical IPP2 Gamut Mapping and I get this image below.







    Maybe use this as the metadata

    Last edited by rand thompson; 10-15-2020 at 08:33 AM.
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    I took a deep dive into Dolby Vision tools and it seems like the best option for grading for both SDR and HDR based on their tone mapping system. However, after watching the tutorials Jake provided I seem to hit a wall even if I followed their setup and I don't know why.
    The Dolby Vision tone mapping analysis never gives me access to their tools after the analysis is done. So I can't manage the Dolby Vision metadata for a SDR output.

    At the same time, tone mapping to 100 nits rec709 gives me some wild off the charts images.

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  3. #23  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Christoffer,

    Have you tried setting "limit output gamut to" P3-D65 to see if that make a difference?
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    I took a deep dive into Dolby Vision tools and it seems like the best option for grading for both SDR and HDR based on their tone mapping system. However, after watching the tutorials Jake provided I seem to hit a wall even if I followed their setup and I don't know why.
    The Dolby Vision tone mapping analysis never gives me access to their tools after the analysis is done. So I can't manage the Dolby Vision metadata for a SDR output.

    At the same time, tone mapping to 100 nits rec709 gives me some wild off the charts images.

    I suspect you are trying to send REC 709 data to a screen that's expecting REC 2020 ST2084 PQ. I don't know whether the images are from Resolve's UI viewer or from your Samsung display, but either way, you have to know what your screen thinks its trying to display to know whether your image or your signal is screwing you up. On a proper monitor, there's a button you can push that will tell you your video format, data levels, color space, gamma curve, etc. But I will bet that Resolve is listening to your output color space parameters, and that's tripping up the DV bit that's trying to stuff REC 709 output into a REC 2020 color space.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tiemann View Post
    I suspect you are trying to send REC 709 data to a screen that's expecting REC 2020 ST2084 PQ. I don't know whether the images are from Resolve's UI viewer or from your Samsung display, but either way, you have to know what your screen thinks its trying to display to know whether your image or your signal is screwing you up. On a proper monitor, there's a button you can push that will tell you your video format, data levels, color space, gamma curve, etc. But I will bet that Resolve is listening to your output color space parameters, and that's tripping up the DV bit that's trying to stuff REC 709 output into a REC 2020 color space.
    Those are from within Resolve. But it doesn't matter because the limiting action of the tone mapping should show up on the scopes by going under 100 nits. Right now it does this:



    Changing to any other tone mapping, 600 nits, 1000 nits etc. shows correctly both in the viewer and scopes.

    On top of that I can't change any settings after analyzing a shot. It should not be greyed out like that. The whole point is to match the tone mapped with the original grade, but I can't do that.

    And the 100 nits bad looking image looks like how the output render in H265 looks like even if I don't use Dolby Vision for grading.
    "Using any digital cinema camera today is like sending your 35mm rolls to a standard lab. -Using a Red is like owning a dark room."
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    I tried these. I believe you have to get a license to access that info in Dolby vision, I may be wrong.






    Had "Video Level Scopes" on earlier

    Last edited by rand thompson; 10-15-2020 at 11:57 AM.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    SDR settings I'm trying






    Had "Video Level Scopes" on earlier

    Last edited by rand thompson; 10-15-2020 at 11:58 AM.
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    There's an option for Dolby Vision in the settings, but are you saying that it's recommended to go full Dolby Vision and then convert to HDR10?.
    When did I say that?
    I was only talking about DolbyVision. When multiple deliverables are required by the networks, it makes sense to do a single HDR grade and then derive the rest from that single grade. HDR10+, if needed, can be derived from DolbyVision grade. But if you only delivering HDR10 or HDR10+ with Rec-709 derived from HDR10+, then there is no need for a DolbyVision grade and DolbyVision license.
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  9. #29  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Arvidsson View Post
    Check out the replay of these seminars.

    https://www.gotostage.com/channel/dolby-vision-creation


    Dolby vision options.
    The first option is free – and requires no license from Dolby if you have a Color Corrector or Mastering System that supports our latest SDK, (we call that version 4.0). For example, Resolve 15 or 16 can create the basic Level 1 dynamic (shot by shot) metadata without a license from Dolby. This is a great option for simply packaging existing HDR10 deliverables to deliver in Dolby Vision and Mastering houses who only need to create the basic metadata and or package or edit (copy/paste) metadata, not make creative decisions (i.e. modify the mapping with trims – see option 2). Full Master and Mezzanine playback of a Dolby Vision deliverable is also fully supported without an additional license from Dolby. Consult with your tool manufacturer on their feature support.



    The second option requires an annual license from Dolby. The license gives you the ability to enable the Dolby Vision artistic trim controls on top of the Level 1 metadata (for either 2.9 or 4.0 versions). These trims allow the colorist to dynamically adjust the mapping for HDR and SDR targets and is most commonly used on a dramatic/episodic/features headed for Netflix, Disney, WB, Paramount, etc… The annual fee is $ 2,500 (recently lowered from $ 5k per year). We can also do a 6 month version for $ 1,250

    There is also a third option...
    There is a lot to unpack there. The main being, that they are saying, that DolbyVision master can be delivered without the DolbyVision license. This is true in THEORY, but in practice ALL networks require a proper REC-709 tone mapping, that must be reflected in the companion XML. Dolby instructor at the day long DolbyVision seminar, which is included with the annual license purchase, specifically mentioned this in the course. He mentioned, that in order to pass DolbyVision QC requirements, in the past some users were introducing a small, but visually imperceptible to the eye tone mapping trims in order to satisfy the network requirement for dynamic trims. Unfortunately for those users, networks got wise to that trick and now easily can identify it and kick it back. And that is taking into an account, that you already have a DolbyVision license. If you don't have it, then you can't even pass the first hurdle. Also, because of the ever popular LG OLED screens, which operate at 600 nits brightness, majority of clients require a second HDR PQ trim for 600 nits in addition to 100 nits for REC-709. The bottom line, if you need to deliver a DolbyVision master to a network, you will absolutely need to get a DolbyVision license, there is no way around that.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Dolby Institute tutorial series 1-6













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