The Look of RED

[Andrew Dease]

What is the scientific reason RED looks so filmic (not noise or grain but depth to the image itself) vs Blackmagic (not even worth mentioning canon as I’ve never seen anything good from it) Even ARRI looks like video next to red? Good color sure but why can a company like Blackmagic with their 12k still it’s looks video? I think the future is a more video like look like epic W was but why? Is red a different kind of sensor than Blackmagic in design, layers of colors I mean as red users I think we know how good red looks and how shit it kind of seems EVERYTHING else does generally? I mention this before other companies images look ‘thin’ like they could break and it’s just not there. Compare to Phil’s blacksmith swordsmith video looks like a bazooka at an anthill. Anthill being the images from all other manufactures.

He did 3D lut I suppose is it something in that.

[Jason Conrad]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iHIAA...qQj/s-l400.jpg

[Andrew Dease]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iHIAA...qQj/s-l400.jpg

I see you’ve been using red since late 2017. About ten years late to the party even then so I can think you don’t have experience with red raw. 16bit...

[Blair S. Paulsen]

There are several aspects of the RED camera architecture that impact image characteristics. Additionally, to one degree or another, they are interactive.

That said, IMHO, the key is that RED/Graeme use conservative image construction algorithms to avoid aliasing. Theory being, that downscaling the oversampled image will yield plenty of genuine edge definition. Many other systems do some sharpening upstream from quantization which can generate ringing on high contrast transitions - an artifact commonly associated with a video look.

Cheers - #19

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I also imagine that the wavelet compression may have something to do with it. Maybe. I think a lot of systems have nice images. I like the GH5, for example, from what I've seen. I wouldn't knock Blackmagic as a lot of people love the look from those cameras.

ARRI's image is great, too, and certainly does not look like video. Although personally I am not sure that you could justify ARRI anymore, given that we have Red on the high end (not to mention that 9K IMAX camera) and all sorts of nice cameras on the low end. But you tell me.

LUTs have a lot to do with it. If you have sufficient information, you can make one thing look like another thing. To a point. LUTs won't fix DR, or rolling shutter, or other things like that. Those are just observations. I'm not a colorist.

I shoot photos only, and there is no such thing as a 'video look' to digital photos these days. Of course you could dig down to the bottom of the camera barrel. There are some real stinkers down there!

[Jason Conrad]

I see you’ve been using red since late 2017. About ten years late to the party even then so I can think you don’t have experience with red raw. 16bit...

You might want to look again.

[Phil Holland]

Been a few years and a bunch of shoots, but the LUT I created for Forged was based around a general color target I created for Kodak some years back for Vision 3 emulation, with some tweaks specifically for Forged. Pre-IPP2 days and everything was REDlogFilm back then, i.e. Cineon Log which all my LUT work for the previous 15 years was based around, so fairly easy color workflow.

First pass color correction was done all via the REDCODE RAW settings. White balance mainly. 3D LUT was applied via Lumetri in Adobe Premiere Pro.

The grade was pretty straight forward, but at the time 8K was new as well as 8K to 8K and 8K to 4K workflows. I remember doing various encodes, scaling, and processing tests.

Really enjoyed that opportunity and the shoot. Looking back now it barely even happened due to Tony's schedule and only having that prototype Dragon for such a short time. Wasn't easy. Just me, my 1st AC, and Tony for a few days. 4 lights with daylight occasionally. Nila Boxers and Litepanel Astras. Nice to be involved with a smidge of the build process too to make that deadline. Didn't have time or space in his old shop for big camera movements, kept it pretty simple.

Can't stress enough how pumped I was and still am about VV. Been really wanting this as a format in digital cinema done right for many years. We had a VistaVision camera in the 2000s that could crank up to 72fps and I fell deeply in love with it. That camera rigged up and loaded was well over 40lbs. DSMC2 obviously is much easier on the arms, back, and body.

[Andrew Dease]

Been a few years and a bunch of shoots, but the LUT I created for Forged was based around a general color target I created for Kodak some years back for Vision 3 emulation, with some tweaks specifically for Forged. Pre-IPP2 days and everything was REDlogFilm back then, i.e. Cineon Log which all my LUT work for the previous 15 years was based around, so fairly easy color workflow.

First pass color correction was done all via the REDCODE RAW settings. White balance mainly. 3D LUT was applied via Lumetri in Adobe Premiere Pro.

The grade was pretty straight forward, but at the time 8K was new as well as 8K to 8K and 8K to 4K workflows. I remember doing various encodes, scaling, and processing tests.

Really enjoyed that opportunity and the shoot. Looking back now it barely even happened due to Tony's schedule and only having that prototype Dragon for such a short time. Wasn't easy. Just me, my 1st AC, and Tony for a few days. 4 lights with daylight occasionally. Nila Boxers and Litepanel Astras. Nice to be involved with a smidge of the build process too to make that deadline. Didn't have time or space in his old shop for big camera movements, kept it pretty simple.

Can't stress enough how pumped I was and still am about VV. Been really wanting this as a format in digital cinema done right for many years. We had a VistaVision camera in the 2000s that could crank up to 72fps and I fell deeply in love with it. That camera rigged up and loaded was well over 40lbs. DSMC2 obviously is much easier on the arms, back, and body.

Forged is a pinnacle in red imaging.

[Phil Holland]

Forged is a pinnacle in red imaging.

https://www.red.com/shot-on-red

Queens Gambit looks pretty nice too :)

[Jamie A]

Although personally I am not sure that you could justify ARRI anymore, given that we have Red on the high end (not to mention that 9K IMAX camera) and all sorts of nice cameras on the low end. But you tell me.

The vast majority of productions do justify using an Arri camera