Thread: Vazen MFT anamorphic on DSMC2??

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  1. #1 Vazen MFT anamorphic on DSMC2?? 
    Senior Member Luka Sanader's Avatar
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    would it be possible to palatially rehouse Vazen MFT lens and make them EF mount? rear element on 40mm looks like it isnt too deep and with modified OPLF could work on DSMC2

    did anyone measure 40mm and 28mm lenses?

    this looks like a lot of trouble but Vazens are not bad lenses at all and on Helium it gives a 6k 6:5 they should have full coverage. maby this isnt ideal option but if all 3 lenses work well it could be interesting alternative for low budget narrative shot on Ana

    http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/...&focalLengths=
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  2. #2  
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    It'd be great if they could; a 3 lens s35 1.8x anamorphic set for less than $10k!

    Alas, I think they have a PL/EF version coming, but it's more than 2.5x the price... Oh wait, it might also be FF instead of S35, but still... $8k vs $3250 is rough.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 01-30-2021 at 02:45 PM.
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  3. #3  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Not possible, at least without major camera or more lens surgery. They already "sawed off and pushed it" for RF Mount.

    MFT FFD = 19.25mm

    RF FFD = 20mm

    Shortest FFD mount for DSMC2 = Leica-M and even then there's retrofocus lens design limitations.

    Leica-M FFD = 27.80mm


    The FF 1.8X lenses are a whole different ball game IMO and a big step up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Not possible, at least without major camera or more lens surgery. They already "sawed off and pushed it" for RF Mount.

    MFT FFD = 19.25mm

    RF FFD = 20mm

    Shortest FFD mount for DSMC2 = Leica-M and even then there's retrofocus lens design limitations.

    Leica-M FFD = 27.80mm
    But the RED Interchangeable Mount plaform is ~20mm (~21mm at most)... ...But, well, unless you're using the VV OLPF, it's essentially a wall there.

    After having done the Interchangeable OLPF install myself, I can confirm that there's at least a 1cm/10mm room back behind the OLPF on DSMC1. I would think that DSMC2 (which was designed with the bigger porthole of VV in mind) would also have the space back there too. No way RED would offer a new DSMC1/DSMC2 facia recessed that far back when DSMC3 is so close, though...


    ...I'm feeling deja vu. Has this been discussed before?
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  5. #5  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    ...I'm feeling deja vu. Has this been discussed before?
    Plenty of times. Even funnier when it's mount standards that didn't exist when DSMC or DSMC2 came out (E-Mount, R-Mount, Z-Mount, etc.). I suspect though at this point in the timeline we now have all of the relevant mirrorless mounts moving forward into the future and future cameras can be designed with that consideration. Seems like that's already happening with Komodo.
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    Senior Member Zack Birlew's Avatar
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    I've wondered about this too as I look at my Sony A7S where the sensor is basically right there at the mount and my RED One MX sensor where it's down in the mount tube and I can't help but think that if there was a way to just readjust the sensor then it could be a mirrorless mount or adjust for trickier lenses. I realize that the Sony E mount is set up perfectly for adding adapters and such but RED surely would be able to adapt to this style rather easily, even if it means a custom RED Mount for adding all kinds of adapters. I'm sure DSMC3 will choose an RF mount and all will be good and well but, personally, I kind of also wish they would do a Nikon Z or even Sony E version just so I don't have to buy new adapters and, if it were Nikon Z, there's already a shim adapter for making it Sony E compatible, but in any case, surely this will all be resolved with DSMC3 and we only have to see what can be adapted to its mount choice at that time.
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    Yeah but that ignores that an interchangable mount platform is, well, mountless for the purpose of it being swappable, so making it as shallow as possible would only increase compatibiilty (regardless of what's available at the time).

    Besides, RED would've known the DSMC1 interchangeable mount platform wasn't shallow enough when they made the Leica M-mount, which couldn't take all M lenses because of depth... Granted full support for M-mount alone may not have been enough to encourage a redesign, but mFT and E-mount had been out for ~4 years by the time DSMC2 rolled out and their success/advantages were obvious by that point (pretty sure they were out before DSMC1, and even EOS M was ~2012).

    ...but I digress; it's too late for DSMC1 & 2. And if they're licensing RF for Komodo, they're likely going to make the interchangeable platform for DSMC3 shallow enough to offer an interchangeable RF mount at the very least... like what Kinefinity did around the same time as DSMC2 (put the sensor right up front so it can take any mount with a flange ~12mm* onwards).


    *that's a guess. But if you've seen an Kinimount, the sensor is like *right* there, almost parallel with the turret.
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  8. #8  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Agree with Zack on RF being the focus for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    Besides, RED would've known
    It's interesting looking back at 2014/2015. E-Mount was introduced in 2012 and primarily focused on entry level mirrorless and at the time, nothing full frame initially. MFT was around well before that, but a sensor size that was fairly not targeted towards Super 35 or larger formats. Many avoided it as it was the real entry level mirrorless target.

    Subsequently more robust video features came into both of those mounts with new models. The A7 and A7R in particular, late 2013/early 2014 was allowed for big growth eventually over time. But actually it was the second generation that really pushed them along and the eventual support across Sony's motion ecosystem. Sony FS7 was late 2014 and had E-Mount support.

    Hard to comprehend nowadays as there's just so many options. But Canon EF had something like 75-85% of the market share of all lenses in the world when DSMC2 was released across theirs and 3rd party lenses. If I remember way back Leica-M wasn't ever a planned for DMSC2, but they found a way to make it work for some lenses for I think a photographer who was doing covers. There's a forum post somewhere here about all that. But DSMC and DSMC2 were build around PL, EF, and a much smaller segment of Nikon shooters, though due to some of their unique optics certainly very relevant.

    Meanwhile Canon took their sweet time on RF mount. Their M-Mount was never going to fly for anything but the most compact cameras. It was designed to compete against MFT if I recall correct. But RF was announced in 2018, pretty damn recent. And Komodo in 2020 featured it. So RED got the memo for mirrorless and shorter flange support. And there's a slowly increasing family RF lenses. A little shocked I haven't seen many rocking Komodo with the Kipon Elegants actually.

    I wouldn't put much faith in MFT or Canon-M being relevant for digital cinema cameras, I think Canon-M has a little life in it, but it's never been part of the motion market. Don't even think Panasonic is pursuing MFT video cameras anymore. I do think the G series of bodies will continue and be useful/great. If Sharp ever releases their 8K body that will be fun. Fujinon is exploring currently both a smaller than S35 format and a larger than FF35 format. Pretty interesting.

    Now that RF is out and Canon has clearly stated that's where much of their R&D and future developments land as well as support RF in their own cinema line now, it'll be a larger arena. Moving forward it seems for professional mirrorless cameras it will likely be a tale of RF and E mounts. Meanwhile PL will and is still the defacto standard for day to day filmmaking.

    What's more interesting to me is all of the behind the lens tech we're seeing involving PL and EF adapters. That's making things a bit more fun, useful, and compact.

    And I'll reiterate that we can likely have something like a 25-26mm FFD new PL standard, but that's me just yelling that for the past decade to manufacturers so far. Nobody wants to do it until they absolutely have to. Perhaps a this decade thing. SPL is what I pushed it as. I suspect after the next couple or so generations that will be considered hardcore.

    The funny thing to me now that the landscape is a bit clearer, there's a couple omissions that create similar chaos for every manufacturer once again. Not a super big deal until it is.

    It's interesting because we have a clear big 4 at the moment. RED, Arri, Sony, and Canon. At least when it comes to general productions. I do wonder if Arri has any interest in mirrorless mounts, though I suspect they won't both until they have to. I wonder if we'll see a true 5th or 6th player. Perhaps Panasonic jumping back in somehow or a newer company. Right now with so much focus on workflow though, it's going to be both easy and tough at the same time to make cameras in the future. You can build your own now fairly inexpensively even. But state of the art cameras are going to be wild and difficult still. Going to be a hell of decade. Look at just this past year of releases. Pretty rad and scary at the same time.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies, 1X RED Komodo, and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Luka Sanader's Avatar
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    mount question is really interesting one. I was always fun of how Sony did it on F55 with that FZ mount. it was shallow enough and big enough to be adapted to any mount like Mirrorless but it was big Positive Lock easy to change... yo bad that concept wasn't applied on Red DSMC when it came out. I think A-Mount and FZ already existed in that time. but this is all another topic..
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