Thread: Insanity on set.

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  1. #11  
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    This is peanuts. Any Hong-Kong Movie in the 80íes and 90'ies eats this so called "danger" for breakfast.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S2AEgjNYL0

    Would love for Bay to Post this shot or show it in the trailer, but might be too spoilery !
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  2. #12  
    Here is another link to add to the list of stunts gone wrong on larger big budget production sets. Some folks even lost their lives.

    https://youtu.be/DvXEELOEXM4
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  3. #13  
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    how did the "police officer" in the middle of the scene survived? looks like that police car takes him out
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  4. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I've had a few conversation with people surrounding this clip, mostly those who haven't ever been around large scale stunts or what goes into them.

    What you are actually seeing is a well rehearsed take with specific paths for the individuals in the shot. The ambulance line and trajectory of the blast pole on the car, which is cued before the ambulance even gets there, as well as the SUV shield are all meticulously planned, tested, and ran through.

    I was a smidge shocked to see the slight dolly bump, but that's pretty much the most dangerous part of anything here. Hard to tell if that was driver or remote controlled breaking, but either way that was a stop planned.

    Stunts are indeed dangerous business for film professionals, but there's a great deal of safety going on here that would be pretty invisible to the eye, which honestly means they are doing their jobs.

    And this is coming from a guy who spots 2K overheads without safety line that can easily kill talent if rigged without a cable.

    The illusion here is that it doesn't look like it's safety first, but there's a lot of people involved there that are making safety the upmost priority.

    Had rather similar conversations about the BTS of Extraction, which also looked pretty safe considering all things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I've had a few conversation with people surrounding this clip, mostly those who haven't ever been around large scale stunts or what goes into them.

    What you are actually seeing is a well rehearsed take with specific paths for the individuals in the shot. The ambulance line and trajectory of the blast pole on the car, which is cued before the ambulance even gets there, as well as the SUV shield are all meticulously planned, tested, and ran through.

    I was a smidge shocked to see the slight dolly bump, but that's pretty much the most dangerous part of anything here. Hard to tell if that was driver or remote controlled breaking, but either way that was a stop planned.

    Stunts are indeed dangerous business for film professionals, but there's a great deal of safety going on here that would be pretty invisible to the eye, which honestly means they are doing their jobs.

    And this is coming from a guy who spots 2K overheads without safety line that can easily kill talent if rigged without a cable.

    The illusion here is that it doesn't look like it's safety first, but there's a lot of people involved there that are making safety the upmost priority.

    Had rather similar conversations about the BTS of Extraction, which also looked pretty safe considering all things.
    Phil, I am sorry but I respectfully disagree. Strongly so. We are each going on our own experiences, of course. I’ve been on the set of over 50 feature films. Many of them action films that were stunt-heavy, seeing as I do BTS professionally and stunt-work is something productions cover with BTS. I am going on personal experience that happens to be heavy on witnessing stunts. And witnessing stunts on major studio productions.

    I’ve been present for many, many stunts that took unnecessary risks. Most went without incident. Many did not. I’ve seen a man snapped in half during a stunt gone wrong and countless others suffer injury that required medical attention if not hospitalization. I’ve come close to being killed on a set more than once. And that is not exaggeration.

    This for me always summed up the lackadaisical attitude in filmmaking towards safety: the Prop Dept goes around set prior to a stunt asking if anyone wants hearing protection or eye protection. Asking. Imagine that happening in another industry, PPP optional. A person goes around at the chemical plant asking if anyone wants to wear eye-protection. If you decline, so be it. This “voluntary safety” was largely the way before SoS and I’ve seen it regularly since SoS.

    In the clip, there never should have been a manned camera in a position that could be in the path of a motor vehicle. They didn’t even bother putting any sort of barrier in place to protect the crew. Nevertheless have that crew wear safety helmets. The air of “that’s for wimps!” and “it’ll be fine, don’t worry, just get the shot” persists.

    This notion that filmmakers are actually very safe but casual viewers lack the knowledge to see it in BTS is bunk. I was on a set last month where it was announced that there was a real firearm on set for the scene and crew members were asked if they wanted to inspect that the weapon was not loaded. Why the heck is a real firearm being used at all? How absurd to go around allowing people to inspect the firearm “for safety” when there is zero reason to be using a working firearm at all and if safety was of most concern you’d not be using a working firearm, period.

    The fact that a anyone would release that clip and think it anything but negative marketing says much. It isn’t cute and it isn’t funny. But apparently the individual saw marketing potential in the clip’s making the filmmaking look “crazy” and risky. But at the same time wanting it thought that all safety measures were taken. A safe set is never crazy or dangerous. And I don’t buy that the incident only appeared dangerous but in fact was performed as safely as is possible.

    You speculated that the individual would not have released the clip were any crew in actual danger. I think it likely just the opposite: they would not have released the clip were the crew never in any danger. The value of the clip was that it shows crew narrowly escaping harm.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John David Pope View Post
    You speculated that the individual would not have released the clip were any crew in actual danger. I think it likely just the opposite: they would not have released the clip were the crew never in any danger. The value of the clip was that it shows crew narrowly escaping harm.
    I wouldn't say I'm speculating anything nor am I saying that nobody was in danger, more pointing out the obvious. The point you're making and the effectiveness of perceived danger to incite a response, yes that is exactly what transpired here.

    To emphasize a few points.

    - Stunts are dangerous no matter what
    - Stunts have gone wrong in the past
    - Even worse far less safety precautions and ignorance has been deployed when trying to get the shot
    - Extremely experienced Stunt Men and Women choreographed, rehearsed, and executed this shot as well as the camera team
    - Stunt People have a deep understanding of the risks present when performing
    - Bay makes action films
    - Bay is the Director and Producer on this Universal film
    - This clip was fully cleared by everybody involved to be posted publicly under the Director's account
    - It was posted to evoke a response
    - It was posted because the stunt went off without a hitch
    - Probably even more than one take

    This wasn't close to anything of negligence of "just get the shot" mentality. This was a very planned stunt with the appropriate safety teams in place.

    I certainly think there's a lot to be said about reckless stunt work and dangerous filmmaking practices particularly after major incidents have transpired with life altering injuries or worse. But this is far from that. Very, very far.

    Of course local experience of bad calls and questionable decisions will inform many opinions. In the case of a stunt like this on a production like this, the people behind it wouldn't have even attempted it if there was a severe level of discomfort.

    I don't know really how to expand on this further. People have lost their vision running into things on set like a misplaced c-stand, that's not this film. Professionals take safety very seriously whether they are making cables safe in a dark stage or jumping across a multistory building in full harness.

    There are some who would likely say anything they've ever seen done in a live action stunt likely would be too dangerous to realistically film. Meanwhile you'll have a drink with a stunt dude who just smashed a car into a wall in a safety cage after a 30 foot drop with an integrated explosion. Somewhere between extremes exists reality. And yes, accidents can and do happen even on high end productions.

    But yeah, overall pointing out that everybody here is up in arms about something that went off without a hitch really that was released on the social media account of the literal film director and not exactly something leaked due to an incident or something occurring.


    I always have to mention it when it happens, but it's a rare day where Jacek and I agree on something, but here we are.


    One last one. Yes, there is a spectrum of comfort when it comes to stunts in general. A minor fall onto a crash pad is sometimes too severe for some to consider even on a well insured production. This gets more interesting when main talent is involved and breaks a foot or something causing both an issue as well as a delay in filming. But to echo once again, everybody there knew what the hell they were doing. I would have been comfortable on that dolly considering everything I can discern in the clip.

    It's okay to disagree here. I know this is a sensitive one. Just trying to remind people this is a bunch of professionals who put a great deal of care into the execution of whatever this final shot and sequence will be who weren't exactly tricked into doing anything here.
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  6. #16  
    “ Professionals take safety very seriously whether they are making cables safe in a dark stage or jumping across a multistory building in full harness.”

    But professionals are reporting to you that such is regularly not the case. My experience as a professional on 50+ titles is otherwise than professionals always being professional. Is it professional and having safety as a top priority to use a working firearm in a scene when a rubber version would suffice?

    You have said that meticulous planning took place on that set, but how do you know? I’ve documented some of these planning sessions and they often are not particularly meticulous.

    Stunt work is dangerous, yes. And I’m not suggesting it can always be risk-free. I am more talking about unnecessary risk, failure to take precaution, or as with this clip failing to contend for worse case scenarios. For the unexpected. That production had no barrier in place to protect the crew because they didn’t figure on any vehicle colliding with the crew. I get that you do not see there having been any need as no one was ever in danger. We disagree there. But what would a barrier have hurt? Why not, just in case? Expense? Time? Hassle of it?

    Several of the times I was present when crew were injured during a stunt the injured crew were watching from a distance they did not have to be. They were injured as a result of being unnecessarily allowed too close to the event. As result of unprofessional sloppiness.

    Whether crew are “tricked” into being in danger is a matter of semantics. I wouldn’t say they are deceived. But they are told that they are safe when they are not safe. And measures that could easily be put into place to protect crew are not always put in place. I tell those just starting out in the biz: “Just because the Stunt Coordinator tells you an area is safe doesn’t mean it is safe. Use your own good judgment and don’t just assume what the person says is in fact the case, because they are the Stunt Coord.”. They make mistakes. And don’t always contend for every possibility. Even “professionals” are not infallible. Even “professionals” at times act unprofessionally.
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  7. #17  
    “ This is peanuts. Any Hong-Kong Movie in the 80íes and 90'ies eats this so called "danger" for breakfast.”

    This comes across to me as not only dismissive of safety concern but smacking of the “ah, you wimps!!” mentality that contributes to lack of safety.

    So things were even more wild and more dangerous in filmmaking in times past. Is that any consolation to the family of Sarah Jones?
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