3D Stereoscopic Film with HVX200 ?

[dcmbeats]

hi guys,

I'm new in this, so please excuse my ignorance.

I wonder if it is possible to sync two panasonic HVX200 cams, in order to produce a stereoscopic film ?

(I only know the possibility to sync timecode and usersettings with firewire or SD-Card, but this isnt what I need - I think)

Is it right, that it is decisive, that the recording starts exactly at the same time ? (apart from angle and so on...)

thanks for any information

greets jonny

[istvanttt]

In the worst case you can use in post the sound-track of the left and right clip to sync. If you don't have fast camera or talent movements then you can stay with it.

hi guys,

I'm new in this, so please excuse my ignorance.

I wonder if it is possible to sync two panasonic HVX200 cams, in order to produce a stereoscopic film ?

(I only know the possibility to sync timecode and usersettings with firewire or SD-Card, but this isnt what I need - I think)

Is it right, that it is decisive, that the recording starts exactly at the same time ? (apart from angle and so on...)

thanks for any information

greets jonny

[dcmbeats]

thank you very much for you answer.

you say it: "worst case" ! - is there any - let me say - professional solution, to control both cameras simultaneously ?

[Eric Lange]

hi guys,

I'm new in this, so please excuse my ignorance.

I wonder if it is possible to sync two panasonic HVX200 cams, in order to produce a stereoscopic film ?

(I only know the possibility to sync timecode and usersettings with firewire or SD-Card, but this isnt what I need - I think)

Is it right, that it is decisive, that the recording starts exactly at the same time ? (apart from angle and so on...)

thanks for any information

greets jonny

check out www.21stcentury3d.com/technology.html#top

these guys (21st century 3d ) have a nice rig built aroun the AG-DVX100a s.

We develop a new type of sofware that can extract clean 3d geometry and textures from stereo dynamic and stereo stills. Would you have any use of such a software? The software and interface are fully immersive.

We are trying to design systems around the ONE, but we also work with with high res stills cameras. Our data sets are also very VR friendly.

Cheers,

Eric

P.M. about the prices from 21st century 3d (if you are interested).

[Benni Diez]

Eric, is there some beta testing? Sounds very interesting.

[Eric Lange]

Eric, is there some beta testing? Sounds very interesting.

I will PM you and be in contact, nice show reel.

cheers,

Eric

(I see now that there appears to be a PM restriction on your "account", so will phone/contact you perhaps. My German is little rusty for technical conversations but either way I can e-mail you via more conventional channels.)

[Dan Hudgins]

hi guys,
I wonder if it is possible to sync two panasonic HVX200 cams, in order to produce a stereoscopic film ?

The crystal sync should hold for 30 seconds to a minute before it gets out of sync by one frame, for 3D work you would want less than one frame sync error since you get 3D artifacts if the cameras are not in sync on fast moving subjects.

All you have to do is use a slate clap board to find the same start frame on all four parts, 2 images, 2 sound.

When you set up to shoot do not turn the cameras off parallel so much that anything in the background will diverge the viewers eyes more than 6.25cm (~2.5 inches) on the background, since if the eyes of the viewer need to diverge too much he will see double or get eye strain. Its better to have the most distant object in the shot line up in both cameras to avoid that at all viewing distances and projection sizes, or just keep the cameras parallel with the normal offset for the focal length used.

If you are outdoors you can line up of something in the far distance, if you are indoors you can tip in a little but keep things on the far walls together. If you tip in on the subject too much outdoors the things at INF may go too far apart on the screen to fuse for most viewers.

[Benni Diez]

Thanks Eric. :)


You will need cameras with Genlock, like the EX3. If you sync the material later you will have a slight sub-frame offset most of the time which will be uncomfortable with fast motion. And even if you sync the record start perfectly, you will get offset after a while. Every frame needs to be perfectly in sync.

I wonder how the semi-pro rigs handle focus.


The P+S rig looks pretty cool btw:

http://www.reel-show.tv/index.html?vidId=00063

Side-by-side rigs are cheap but have very limited control over depth and convergence.

[Eric Lange]

Thanks Eric. :)




I wonder how the semi-pro rigs handle focus.


The P+S rig looks pretty cool btw:

http://www.reel-show.tv/index.html?vidId=00063

Side-by-side rigs are cheap but have very limited control over depth and convergence.

The rig we are building is more of a surveying grade instrument. For focus, the principal distance of the lenses we use is calibrated to +/- 2.5 micron, and the angular precision of the cameras is generally of the order of 7 arc seconds, (very high res encoders), and further possible to get down to 3 arc seconds. For dynamic focus pull we are having to build lens “cones” that have cross roller bearing stages that are actuated by precision ball screws and servo motors, linear encoders and motion controller to effect the same 2.5 micron precision. Special setting techniques are required and from time to time using autocollimators to very accurately set the “start point” of the lenses. We mainly work with Schneider type lenses (symmetrical/biogon type config) and we can work with distagon type primes, but as yet we have not carried out any precision work with zoom lenses (very hard to achieve).

We are going for side by side arrangement, but for very close inter axial separation we are exploring the use of lateral prisms/mirrors as there is potentially less loss of contrast and the ability to effect greater precision. Our system has to be very precise so that accurate 3d data can be extracted from still or dynamic stereograms. The software we are developing will work with any type of stereo data but if you need to extract 3d geometry from a dynamic scene full 360 degrees you need very precise equipment to make all the 3d pieces fit together into relatively complete models (software can only fix so much). We will (hopefully launch in Q1 2009). The basic rig is much less cumbersome than a traditional mirror based stereo rig and allows exact restitution of the imagery in 6DOF. We have pretty much set out to build a rig in terms of precision and control to enable the best stereograms to be taken. For our 3d/inverse animation system we are still trying find a globally shuttered digital system that is not an industrial CCD camera system (ANY IDEAS?!). The rolling shutter(s) of the RED would make accurate metrology of dynamic 3d scenes very difficult. Never the less we are looking to downgrade the system so that film makers can grab the 3d geometry and texture for simple effects sequences for 3d compositing, rather than a total metrological grade solution.

[Benni Diez]

Yeah I think for filmmaking it's not so much about accuracy. It has to be practical and easy to use. And in the end the result has to look convincing.

If you look at some of the stuff they 'dimensionalized', it doesn't look so bad. I've seen a trailer for Nightmare Before Christmas 3D and it was pretty cool. And most of the stuff was crude manual remodelling of the shots. So that's the least Z-depth quality you'll have to deliver and then make it accessible enough for shooters to actually embrace it.

So does your system create 3D geometry for every frame? I imagine some nasty depth wobbling due to noise.

Have you thought about trying something that could be attached to, say, a Red One and deliver data that can later be used in conjunction with the 4k footage?

Because no matter how good cameras you use, it will be hard to get a certain image quality for a nice price.

Also very interesting btw: Nuke has some cool stereo tools. One of them is a plugin that lets you change the actual interocular distance digitally. It uses similar algorithms like those time stretching plugins, so it will depend on the material. But I think one can get away with it in most cases.

I'd really love to see some of your test footage! Or even better, get my hands on it.