Red Reality - 4k Editing systems

[OwenR]

Hi

I use PCs and Macs.....each have their plusse and minuses...

Ive seen somone say that i could get an editing system for less than <£2,000
to edit 4K RedCode live....

Could someone suggest a system PC or Mac which will work but not break
the bank..

Ive seen it said that a Quad Core ie 2xdual core will be good enough,? There's some good prices on PCs with this spec.

Is the secret to edit at 2K or lower and then use this to bring in the higher res clips is this a EDL? how would one go about this on FCP? on premiere?

Can FCP handle 4K? ive seen it said it cant handle the colour?

Now these Reds are getting nearer maybe there should be specefic areas devoted to system choices

Ie the Editing system, which one/s? - What will work ? what is overkill?
How to store the 4k Data in the editing suite
How to store the data in the field
How to shoot Red covering Lense choice etc....

Ps We plan to shoot Red this October in the West Midlands,Uk, we are looking to hire.


Owen

[Gavin Greenwalt]

You'll need a few terrabytes of storage. Treat the whole operation like you would uncompressed SD footage.

No editors in the immediate footage will edit REDCode 4k in 4:4:4. You can transcode to something like Cineform and edit in Premiere in the near future or so I hear. Or you will be able to work in FCP (but not color) in 4k in the somewhat imagineable future but maybe not in 4:4:4 color.

In the end what'll most likely happen for the next year or so is:

Edit a 1080p master and deliver on 1080.
Edit a 1080p or 720p copy and export an EDL (a list of all of your edits hence Edit Decision List) which you then conform to in an online 4k editor such as Nitris or in a compositing/grading app.

In the field:
REDDrive/RAM -> Laptop/external RAID while shooting on your other REDDrive.

You don't need to edit in 4k since you don't have 4k monitoring so in all likelihood even once we start to see 4k enter the editing room it'll be in the form of dynamically generated 1k or 2k proxies which are swapped out for the 4k footage at render.

[david farland]

I didn't know Nitris could do >HD....i.e. no 2K/4K?

DF

[Seán_T]

I didn't know Nitris could do >HD....i.e. no 2K/4K?

DF

Yep a DS Nitris will support 2K/4K uncompressed timelines but the Nitris accelerator wont do much as far as realtime effects above HD. Well it will output HD proxies from 2K on to a broadcast monitor. I dont believe any of the drive arrays that ship with the system will play back realtime uncompressed 4K.

[david farland]

my mistake.....I'd spoke to Avid pre-NAB and they mentioned the 2K/ 4K problem was a win 64 problem which I'm told has been fixed by vista. I suppose the next interesting step will be when/if avid mxf wrap redcode. Thanks for the correction. I like avid a bit more now!

Cheers,

[Tom Lowe]

You'll need a few terrabytes of storage. Treat the whole operation like you would uncompressed SD footage.

No editors in the immediate footage will edit REDCode 4k in 4:4:4. You can transcode to something like Cineform and edit in Premiere in the near future or so I hear. Or you will be able to work in FCP (but not color) in 4k in the somewhat imagineable future but maybe not in 4:4:4 color.

In the end what'll most likely happen for the next year or so is:

Edit a 1080p master and deliver on 1080.
Edit a 1080p or 720p copy and export an EDL (a list of all of your edits hence Edit Decision List) which you then conform to in an online 4k editor such as Nitris or in a compositing/grading app.

In the field:
REDDrive/RAM -> Laptop/external RAID while shooting on your other REDDrive.

Why finish at 1080p rather than 2k? For cinema stuff, I figured if my little indie picture got picked up at all, a 2K master would be easy to transfer to film, or if doesn't, easy to downsample to 1080p for other forms of distribution -- HDTV, HD-DVD, etc.

I was thinking I would shoot 4K mixed with some 1080 RGB overcranked stuff, then downsample the 4K and upsample the 1080 RGB to 2k for my final master.

What are the advantages or disadvantages of finishing at 2k vs 1080?

I am of the opinion that 4K won't hold up as 4K in its full res, but will look stunning at 2k. Just like many DLSR 4K photos (especially low-light stuff like sunsets) cannot stand up to scrutiny when displayed at full pixel-for-pixel size, but if you downsample a 3500x2000 DLSR photo to 2500x1800 or whatever, it will look flawless.

Plus for me, I absolutely have to overcrank some scenes, so I figure 1080p RGB is going to match up a lot better with a 2K downsample than the 4K original, if I was trying to stay at 4k for my final master.