Rolling Shutter?

[Harry Clark]

With the new models and sensors (and new pricing) has there been any additional processing to get the read/reset time as close as possible to zero?
i.e., will we be able to use strobes for effect, or Unilux, or simply whip pan with a skinny shutter?
It's a fundamental issue that has not been addressed as of late. And since no other digital cinema camera (Arri, Dalsa, Genesis) has this issue, it really frustrates me when the issue of a flash or strobe makes us choose a different camera system.
Hopefully, the price bump of Epic addresses some of the tricky issues with Red One, and does not simply subsidize the low price of Scarlet.
Cheers,
Harry

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

Okay...I know just enough to be dangerous, but doesn't a larger sensor mean more difficulties with respect to rolling shutter because of the longer physical distance to travel?

Imagine what that means for 617!?

[Vincent Thomas]

Harry, your question join mine in a way...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22159

[ericyoung]

With the new models and sensors (and new pricing) has there been any additional processing to get the read/reset time as close as possible to zero?
i.e., will we be able to use strobes for effect, or Unilux, or simply whip pan with a skinny shutter?
It's a fundamental issue that has not been addressed as of late. And since no other digital cinema camera (Arri, Dalsa, Genesis) has this issue, it really frustrates me when the issue of a flash or strobe makes us choose a different camera system.
Hopefully, the price bump of Epic addresses some of the tricky issues with Red One, and does not simply subsidize the low price of Scarlet.
Cheers,
Harry

I've been thinking about the rolling shutter issue too, and don't think it will go away because I believe Red have found they need rolling shutter to enable faster framerates. Unfortunately even with much faster readout/reset rates the bottom of the frame is always going to be sampled at a different time to the top of the frame, so some skew will be inherent.

There was some discussion about how film has skew too because the shutter wipes across the film frame sort of like a rolling shutter. But I don't think it does have skew, because each part of each film frame, that doesn't currently have the shutter blade in front of it, is being exposed at the same time. Hence no jello effect with film.

However both can exhibit partial frame exposure with short duration strobes, although the film has a softer more acceptable edge to it due to the shutter blade being out of focus.

[ygo]

There's global shutter, which utilizes a fifth transistor in each pixel, but this can decrease fill-factor of the sensor. Global shutter is what they use for medical remote surgical operation.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jim has stated that the Mysterium-X sensor will have faster read reset times, about 40% faster or so and Monstro even better than that.

A global shutter isn't always the answer as there are times a bit of skew can be a good thing. We have to keep in mind that most formats, even analog medium like film, have skew.

Ultimately, I think the technology will evolve to a point where read reset times can be dialed by the user from zero to whatever, to induce the desired amount of skew. We could even take that farther by utilizing scanning algorithms or defining masks and photosite scanning orders to mimic various types of shutters and their associated skew effect; like the soft and angled fall-off of a mechanical mirror shutter.

[Harry Clark]

I've said this before, but I'll say it again.
It is not impossible to eliminate this artifact. It's merely expensive.
The Arri D-21 also uses a CMOS sensor, and uses the "rolling" mechanical mirror/shutter for timing, but suffers no issues with strobes or skew. Why? They have the sensor divided into quadrants, each with its own processor. Expensive to manufacture, but an unbelievably low price was not a primary driver there... now that we will all pony up more for FF35's, surely there is room to improve this issue.
Cheers,
Harry

[Stephen Webb]

Jim's already said that the objective is not to eliminate skew but to get the read/reset time of the rolling shutter fast enough that the skew matches film. I don't think a global shutter or a 0 read/reset is part of the plan.

[Harry Clark]

They can call it "the same as film" or "0" or "minimal" or whatever. Just so we can use strobes.
Just like with a film camera.
Cheers,
Harry

[Anders Holck]

.
The Arri D-21 also uses a CMOS sensor, and uses the "rolling" mechanical mirror/shutter for timing, but suffers no issues with strobes or skew. Why? They have the sensor divided into quadrants, each with its own processor.

Not really. The D-21 has a mechanical mirror shutter. it's electronic rolling shutter makes the redout/reset when the mechanical shutter blocks the imager.
Therefore the electronic shutter and the readout pattern doesnt affect the motion rendering at all.

It will have the exact same motion rendering as a 435 from which it's mirror shutter assembly originates.