Brains - upgrade path

[roryhinds]

Looking at the "Brains" it appears these cameras do not offer a upgrade path.

Having to buy a new camera every time a sensor is released seem against the RED ethos.

Am I missing something here?

[Jason Ing]

Buying a brain isn't the same as buying a new camera. Just because the sensor is "boxed" doesn't make it a camera.

When you upgrade, you buy a brain (a boxed sensor module), but the rest of your modules, "camera", remains the same.

It's their solution of upholding the Red ethos.

Or to put it another way, if I bought a Canon Rebel XTI and then bought a Canon 40D, I would be buying another LCD monitor, another "viewfinder", another mirror, another vertical handmount, another flash, another shutter button, etc. etc.

[Brook Willard]

It seems to me that the "brain" really is just a camera body with a different name. They have monitor ports, power ports, an HD-SDI port, etc. Sure it doesn't have the port module and a control unit, but it's not like swapping a brain is just swapping a movement. It's still a full-on camera body with a different name... that can't be upgraded.

Think of the accessories like magazines. You can use a 435 mag on a 235, an LT mag on an ST, etc. Furthermore, you can use something like an RCU or CCU on almost Arri, many IVTs are exchangeable, movements can be swapped, etc. The lens/mattebox/follow focus/head/batteries/etc. are just a given, so it's not worth comparing.

Similarly, you'll be able to use the port module and control unit on any Epic and Scarlet, you can swap all those parts back and forth, no problem. It's just making sure that all accessories are cross-compatible - a concept that film cameras have generally relied on for decades that has been brought to RED's lineup in a very specific way.

Doesn't really phase me that the camera bodies can't be upgraded. Buy once... and rent the ones you don't own. :) It's nice to see this concept brought to RED's lineup, even if it's not a completely new one. They have taken it a few steps farther in some ways, but one could still compare something like the port module to a video tap, the control unit to a CCU, the battery module to any onboard battery system, etc.

Where RED took it further is with the still camera integration. That's a new one...

But to me? One man's opinion is that the "brain" is just another word for "camera body" - even if it is a groovy little one. :)

[Joseph Ward]

It seems to me that the "brain" really is just a camera body with a different name. They have monitor ports, power ports, an HD-SDI port, etc. Sure it doesn't have the port module and a control unit, but it's not like swapping a brain is just swapping a movement. It's still a full-on camera body with a different name... that can't be upgraded.

Think of the accessories like magazines. You can use a 435 mag on a 235, an LT mag on an ST, etc. Furthermore, you can use something like an RCU or CCU on almost Arri, many IVTs are exchangeable, movements can be swapped, etc. The lens/mattebox/follow focus/head/batteries/etc. are just a given, so it's not worth comparing.

Similarly, you'll be able to use the port module and control unit on any Epic and Scarlet, you can swap all those parts back and forth, no problem. It's just making sure that all accessories are cross-compatible - a concept that film cameras have generally relied on for decades that has been brought to RED's lineup in a very specific way.

Doesn't really phase me that the camera bodies can't be upgraded. Buy once... and rent the ones you don't own. :) It's nice to see this concept brought to RED's lineup, even if it's not a completely new one. They have taken it a few steps farther in some ways, but one could still compare something like the port module to a video tap, the control unit to a CCU, the battery module to any onboard battery system, etc.

Where RED took it further is with the still camera integration. That's a new one...

But to me? One man's opinion is that the "brain" is just another word for "camera body" - even if it is a groovy little one. :)

Not that I'm disagreeing with you but this is strange coming from one of the moderators of Reduser? If the Brain were to be upgradeable, it would just be the metal box that would remain, right? Anyway I'm glad to see some of the moderators still have a different opinion from Red because the moderators are neutral. This can be helpful for Red in the long run, as well as customers. I'm not against you or Red by the way, so don't take this the wrong way. Just committing on your commit. Cheers.

[Stephen Williams]

Anyway I'm glad to see some of the moderators still have a different opinion from Red because the moderators are neutral..

Hi,

It's great that Brook is back.

Stephen

[Jason Ing]

It's still a full-on camera body with a different name... that can't be upgraded.

A full-on camera body to me is something I can attach a lens to, pop in a battery and start shooting. Can't do that with a brain.

I think Red succeeded with the brain. They reduced it down to the lowest common denominator. Anything lower might be something like a PC in which you can swap out the sensor like a processor. But the sensors are so different or ability/features (Epic size vs Scarlett size), I think the "motherboards" have to be different to; hence the different chassis/body/module/box.

But I get what you mean Brooke.

[Brook Willard]

A full-on camera body to me is something I can attach a lens to, pop in a battery and start shooting. Can't do that with a brain.

I disagree. By that logic, the RED ONE is not a camera, but a "brain" as well.

In order to shoot with the RED ONE, you must connect a battery system, connect storage, connect a monitor, put on a lens and shoot.

With a "brain," you must connect a battery system, connect storage, connect a monitor, put on a lens and shoot.

From the renderings, an Epic "brain" still has at least one monitor connector, a power connector, a data connector and an HD-SDI connector. It doesn't have a built in CF module, but neither does the RED ONE. Sure, it lacks multiple BNC connectors, audio and timecode connectors... but it's only a small breakout box away [the "port module"] from having them. In that respect, the RED ONE needs a breakout box to have BNC connectors as well.

The biggest thing that the Epic "brain" lacks when compared to the RED ONE in this light is an integrated control unit. The Epic's is just removable and dockable - a generation of growth from the RED ONE.

I don't want this to seem like I'm badmouthing the design at all... I'm not. If the camera shipped as it is today, I'd be thrilled. I just think that if you step back, the concept is very similar to what has already existed... it's just executed in a more graceful way.

[Stephen Williams]

I disagree. By that logic, the RED ONE is not a camera, but a "brain" as well.

In order to shoot with the RED ONE, you must connect a battery system, connect storage, connect a monitor, put on a lens and shoot.

With a "brain," you must connect a battery system, connect storage, connect a monitor, put on a lens and shoot.
ay.

Hi Brook,

The brain also needs a controller, that would make RED One a smart brain

Stephen

[Brook Willard]

Heheh, good point. I have to assume that there will be an "essentials" package that one can buy at a discount with their "brain" - a package that would include a controller, port module and maybe a monitor.

Hell, the "brain" might even ship with a control/display unit.

Although you could always connect an external trigger to roll the camera sans control/display unit... and make my point :)

[Jason Ing]

I disagree. By that logic, the RED ONE is not a camera, but a "brain" as well.

In order to shoot with the RED ONE, you must connect a battery system, connect storage, connect a monitor, put on a lens and shoot.

With a "brain," you must connect a battery system, connect storage, connect a monitor, put on a lens and shoot.

From the renderings, an Epic "brain" still has at least one monitor connector, a power connector, a data connector and an HD-SDI connector. It doesn't have a built in CF module, but neither does the RED ONE. Sure, it lacks multiple BNC connectors, audio and timecode connectors... but it's only a small breakout box away [the "port module"] from having them. In that respect, the RED ONE needs a breakout box to have BNC connectors as well.

The biggest thing that the Epic "brain" lacks when compared to the RED ONE in this light is an integrated control unit. The Epic's is just removable and dockable - a generation of growth from the RED ONE.

I don't want this to seem like I'm badmouthing the design at all... I'm not. If the camera shipped as it is today, I'd be thrilled. I just think that if you step back, the concept is very similar to what has already existed... it's just executed in a more graceful way.

I consider the Red One the original brain. That was Red's intent and philosophy from the beginning. It's just become more sophisticated and elegant.

I wonder if it can be further reduced. I'm sure they tried and came up with this design.