Building a post production workflow

[DeaneThrussell]

i've just moved in to a new office with machine room and five edit suite....lovely But i'm building a post workflow. i have a red camera on order like any one with half a brain..But also already have 3 avid which i love, also got a few G5 with final cut...so has any one used automatic duck and is this a way i could use my avids as a offline solution with some kind of proxy file...as i know loads of great freelance avid editors and also feel more comfortable sat on a avid with a client behind me than final cut

http://www.itsjuice.com

[Chris Swartz]

Well, first off we're going to need to know what you want to come out of the computer. Are you wanting 4k or just plain old 1080?

Basic workflow looks like this.

1. Shoot w/ Red Camera
2. Transcode Redcode Raw to something the Avid can manipulate (ie DNxHD)
3. Edit
4. Finnish to Tape, or
5. Export ALE or somekind of edl for 4k online. (ALE works for Scratch)
6. Output for Film or Digital file.

Should be no problem. We'll see how long it takes to transcode to DNxHD. But that's something an assistant can do. I'm sure eventually Avid will edit the Redcode natively or with proxies, but that'll have to wait till the camera actually gets out to a larger group of people.

Nice thing is if you're going to do an offline, then all you need is the Media Composer software. You don't need the Adrenaline w/ HD or Nitris box for an offline, you can use full screen playback on a secondary monitor for basic viewing. For that matter you could use Xpress for an offline, but you won't get as many DNxHD resolutions to play with. Now if you need 1080 output then you'll need a BOB or rental on another Media Composer.


Chris

[Jeremy Newmark]

Automatic Duck should work just fine with a RED workflow going from avid to fcp. We've done a lot of work with offlining on MCA in dnxhd and finishing uncompressed on FCP using automatic duck. It is by far the easiest and fastest way to go from avid to fcp. You simply export your timeline out of avid and import it into fcp with automatic duck. All your effects and transitions are there and then you relink to the higher quality media. That's the basic jist of it, there are more specifics involved, but it is very simple and easy to work with.

best regards,

jeremy

[Lucas Wilson]

5. Export ALE or somekind of edl for 4k online. (ALE works for Scratch)

Just wanted to point out that an ALE-based workflow is almost exclusively for film, as ALE is meant to track Keycode.

For any RED-based project, an EDL is a better way to move timeline metadata from FCP/Avid -> SCRATCH.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA.
www.assimilateinc.com

[wlaroussi]

Hi ,

If you start with Avid MC , you can export your file in OMF format , then finish the work on a rental Autodesk Smoke/Lustre station (for best performance and quality) Or Avid DS . ALL editing work is preserved in one file . The only thing i ignore is how much $ it will cost when compared to scratch or other systems.

Regards .

[dalemccready]

If it's of any use, I can highly recommend Automatic Duck export from FCP to AE. It's saved me a ton of work and avoided FCPs renderer completely.

[Jeremy Torrie]

I'm very curious about the workflow -by way of example we too have 3 Avid's but we have a feature that was shot S16, transferred to HD SR and now I am ready to online, but the color timing has been a big question, and upgrading to Adrenaline BOB with Xcel card is more expensive that buying a brand new Mac with FCP and AJA I/O to online in HD. We already have a very nice Sony BVM-D20Uwith HD-SDi for external monitoring, but I have not been able to glean much info online about how scary (or not) it would be to take your EDL from Avid to FCP. If I can be convinced, I'm ready to order the FCP system, grade in Color and save some cash by not going to compressed 10 bit HD via Avid. Would love to hear some feedback.

Also, are there any items I should be aware of as far as expectance of functionality from FCP? I have heard that rendering for just about everything is required, and obviously I realize this would be the case with Color before having to output. I was considering getting Speedgrade and/or Assimilate to handle the grading side of things, which would only up the cost above and beyond...

I should also point out that I will be mastering to HD SR as well, and by going the Avid route (as proposed) this would have very little advantage technically and econimically.

[Nik Manning]

Torrie I worked in an environment briefly that had 3 Mac editing rooms with client monitors, networked storage, and AJA cards. It work pretty well for them and the clients didn't care what they were editing on. I know for a fact you don't have to render for almost everything. I am on a Mac Pro 3ghz machine 2 x 3 ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon with 2 gigs of Memory. Every effect that will work in realtime is in bold The question you need to ask yourself is what format will you be editing in? I assume this will be Pro Res 422 and if that is the case nobody here can tell you how difficult that is to edit as we haven't used it either. I do know that DVCPROHD cuts like butter in FCP. Since Apple made this codec for FCP I would assume the same.

As far as Color goes if you get the fastest Mac Pro with 4GB memory and the fastest Graphics card, a AJA ioHD, and Raided Storage I am sure you can get some realtime performance in 1080p24. All that will still be cheaper than any other professional color grading package. I am sure it would be mostly realtime in SD or 720p24. You have to realize most folks that will be editing won't have a $6000 Mac Pro so mileage will vary. Hope that helped.

[Jeremy Torrie]

HD SR is not 720P...it is Sony's codec and it is 4:4:4 10 bit 1080/24P so it is very good quality, so no I will not be in Pro Res and not in a compressed resolution like DCVPro (I can edit fine in Avid with that codec and output for that matter).

I'm sure there are performance improvements -all I care about is can I edit in the format as described and output this 100 minute feature back to HD SR via HD-SDI? I assume so, but want to be sure. BTW, there are really no effects to be concerned about -only cuts, and the audio is being done at another facility.

IoHD is not available for awhile yet anyway, and it would be the equivalent of the Avid Adrenaline HD solution, albeit at a much lesser cost.

Also I haven't found the Color manual online yet, and want to know what it renders out to -10 bit 4:4:4? 4:2:2?

[Nik Manning]

Well what I am saying is you can edit in Pro Res 4:2:2 then go back to 10 bit 4:4:4 1080p24 when you export to Color. Color grade in 10 bit 1080p24. Color does export 4:4:4 10 bit in 1080p24. If you are going back to film then yeah this workflow will give you the highest quality, but if not I would say in Pro Res 4:2:2 the whole way. On the Movie "Next" they shot Viper 1080p 4:4:4 and used avidDNxHD codec to edit http://www.studiodaily.com/main/tech...dies/8063.html
The movie Crank was finished in 4:2:2 1080p. And visual it held up well on the big screen.
http://www.studiodaily.com/main/searchlist/7118.html

Hope this helps.