Another fear...

[Tom Lowe]

The fact that the cameras cost different amounts, the fact that there is a discount that eases that pain, etc... that's all fine. The reason I didn't talk about the discount isn't because I feel that the discount isn't a major point... it's just that the discount holds no relevance to the point I was making.

The fact that the FF35 is more desirable than the S35... it's a given and not necessarily a huge point.

My point is that the Scarlet will cannibalize the Epic market to the point that the Epic is simply a high-speed camera with a few extra features. To quote my previous post:

If somebody outfits a Scarlet package in a professional manner, they will be poised to take 80% of the jobs from Epic owners.

I'm just saying that - all else equal - I don't see a compelling reason for anybody to rent an Epic unless they specifically need higher frame rates or can't live without certain niceties... the niceties that they're mostly living without right now.

Brook, be careful. I hope that posts like this are not responsible for the 3K@60fps option being REMOVED from Scarlet FF35. :bye2:

I understand the need to balance an investment with a business model, but let's be careful not to hamstring Jim's ability to produce the best camera for the best price. If FF35 Scarlet eats up Epic business, so be it. We can all adjust our planning accordingly.

[Brook Willard]

After some requests and with the desire to separate the points, I've moved the cannibalism discussion here.

[Mark Pugh]

They should make camera builds that disable features according to the features the customer needs.

Or just a daily shot log that including data of frame size and frame rates.
You could then charge accordingly.
It may be the only way an Epic hirer can compete with Scarlet for lots of shoots.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

Brook, be careful. I hope that posts like this are not responsible for the 3K@60fps option being REMOVED from Scarlet FF35. :bye2:

I understand the need to balance an investment with a business model, but let's be careful not to hamstring Jim's ability to produce the best camera for the best price. If FF35 Scarlet eats up Epic business, so be it. We can all adjust our planning accordingly.

Specs like 3K@60fps are the ones that downgrade the R1. Thats what the R1 can do right now for $10K more. My believe is that Scarlet shouldnt eat Epic business, because if it does its also taking R1's business and there would be no point in getting neither unless you want higher fps. Plus your R1 investment places where exactly? If for 10K less you can get a new R1 called Scarlet (until we know all specs from scarlet this is my guess ... although Jim has stated that there will be circumstantial differences in terms of capabilities between both) The missing part is the Monstro sensor for S35 in the Epic upgrade; which wont come sooner than the Mysterium X because of the development process.
Finally, if we have to adjust our planning accordingly my ideal upgrade path would be trade in your R1 for 2 scarlets :)

[Mark Pugh]

Brook, be careful. I hope that posts like this are not responsible for the 3K@60fps option being REMOVED from Scarlet FF35. :bye2:

I understand the need to balance an investment with a business model, but let's be careful not to hamstring Jim's ability to produce the best camera for the best price. If FF35 Scarlet eats up Epic business, so be it. We can all adjust our planning accordingly.

I think Brook is saying that Red should indeed consider separating the models more, so removal of 3k@60fps would be welcome in that context.

I guess that if Epic's business is crippled by scarlet, Red won't be making as many Epics, and the Epic will therefore be more expensive to produce, Jim's ability to produce an EPIC at a given price-point will be reduced.
Tom you're speaking in defense of the Scarlet you want to buy, Brook and I speak in defense of the Epics we want to buy... the s*&^fight starts here, before a single job or producer walks in!!

[Tom Lowe]

I think Brook is saying that Red should indeed consider separating the models more, so removal of 3k@60fps would be welcome in that context.

I guess that if Epic's business is crippled by scarlet, Red won't be making as many Epics, and the Epic will therefore be more expensive to produce, Jim's ability to produce an EPIC at a given price-point will be reduced.
Tom you're speaking in defense of the Scarlet you want to buy, Brook and I speak in defense of the Epics we want to buy... the s*&^fight starts here, before a single job or producer walks in!!

I am speaking in defense of Jim being able to put out the best camera for the best price, period. The market will decide what is valuable and what is not. If FF35 Scarlet competes with Epic, then make a business decision and buy FF35 Scarlet. What some people seem to be arguing in favor of is asking Jim to HOLD BACK technology from certain cameras... which is what companies like Sony and Canon have been doing for decades.

Specs like 3K@60fps are the ones that downgrade the R1.

So you want Jim to hold back that technology?

[Rick Darge]

I like the idea of figuring out some upgrade option for R1 owners that want to step down to a Scarlet, other than a 12% trade in. Brook, I hear your fears. It will be a while though before we see the goods. in the meantime, I will continue to profit from my R1

[Tom Lowe]

I think some kind of "upgrade" path to buying a FF or S35 Scarlet with all the bells and whistles might make sense. As long as the purchase is in the 20-40K range. I have no issue with people requesting that. But trying to cripple new cameras is not the way to go, IMO.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I am speaking in defense of Jim being able to put out the best camera for the best price, period.

So you want Jim to hold back that technology?

Certainly not, but I feel you are missing the point.
First of all Jim has already being able to put out a gorgeous camera at an unbeatable price.
But, what we are talking about here is the investment we've made towards the R1 and how in a year that investment will have to make a choice. If you do not have an R1 now its easy, you have a lot of options. If you DO have an R1 right now, you are scratching your head saying what the heck am I supposed to do now. The options Jim has shared are fantastic, who else would buy my R1 at the same price that I bought it?? I mean, we are not dumb... its just that there are a lot of questions that remain unanswered in terms of what should we choose when the time comes. And we fear that choice because the upgrade path seems confusing and if like pieces dont fit.

[Tom Lowe]

Bottom line: are you asking Jim to cripple new cameras or not?