Red Cage Suggestions.....

[Alexander Nikishin]

This is definitely last minute so forgive me for being late with these thoughts, but this is something that has been on my mind since the day I saw the original cage design.

The Red Cage is meant to:

-Create mounting points
-Give it's operators/handlers a place to grab onto

But in its practicality, it only works for mounting points, and added protection at the cost of added weight.

With all due respect to Matt Tremblay, I think he has it all wrong with his statement on wanting to, "evolve the way cinematographer's ineract with their camera".

He explains that there are two ways to handle a camera being the top handle and the pan/tilt bar of the head. Further he explains that you can also pan and tilt with the Red Cage handles, and they allow for an operator to operate from the front of the camera as well.

Well, the only way a camera op. operates a camera when on sticks & head is with the one and only pan/tilt bar. There is no reason to operate the camera with the cage handles, nor will there be a reason to in the future.

The pan and tilt bar is the direct connection to the tripod head and allows for the most control and manageability of any handling option. So for controlling the camera when on a tripod head, the cage handles are useless.

Are the cage handles usefull for handheld work? No, that's what the front end grip handles are for.

The thing that the cage handles do well though is first off, they create mounting points for the EVF/LCD, which I love, and secondly, give the camera a bit more protection when being handled by AC's and Grips.

If your AC or Grips are handling the camera so poorly that they need a roll cage on the camera, that is just plain sad and they don't deserve their job. Considering that the cage handles add a couple lbs. of weight to the cage, they are in my opinion, (in their current state of design) dead weight.

Now for the solution.....

Let's take the cage's strong points and build on that modularity and flexibility.

Create cage handles that add an abundace of mounting points, give the camera a bit of protection, and cut down on weight in comparison with the current design.

The new handles could be as simple and practical as flat aluminum bent to a half-moon shape with 1/4 20 holes. This will not only cut down on weight drastiacally, but still retain the mounting points, act as handles and add a sort of roll cage like protection for the Red One.

As for the new handgrip cage handles, they do even less than the old handles and once again add weight with little to no useability.

The good thing about the new handle is the top mounts. But, thinking modular and flexible once again, let's sepserare that top mount and have it be independent of all other pieces. Save weight, save space and allow for more flexibilty.

[Clayton Harper]

Semi-agree. I had planned on taking off those silly cage handles but there are advantages to them.

In the youtube video with Matt he shows the handles being a barrier to the camera resting on the ground/floor etc. I think there maybe other applications/uses/benefits we don't perceive yet. I am willing to give them a chance.

That being said, I would LOVE to see some quarter 20 mounting holes on a side bar that attaches to the top/bottom red rails. Mebbe, this could be a part we buy in the future.

I think we have more flexibility to add parts going forward than it currently may seem like. This design is pretty damn open and as long as it doesn't weigh a shitload, the skys the limit.

[Alexander Nikishin]

In the youtube video with Matt he shows the handles being a barrier to the camera resting on the ground/floor etc. I think there maybe other applications/uses/benefits we don't perceive yet. I am willing to give them a chance.

An additional 4 or so lbs. isn't worth having the ability to rest the camera on the ground.

That being said, I would LOVE to see some quarter 20 mounting holes on a side bar that attaches to the top/bottom red rails. Mebbe, this could be a part we buy in the future.

Why not just do away with the current handles then? I've yet to find a real reason to use the handles besides mounting points.

I think we have more flexibility to add parts going forward than it currently may seem like. This design is pretty damn open and as long as it doesn't weigh a shitload, the skys the limit.

I think that's the whole problem, it does way a considerable amount more than I along with many people expected. Hence the need for weight reduction.

The one comment that I continue to remember about Matt's demo of the cage system at NAB is, "why don't you just use the pan handle?"

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I only agree with some of Alexander's points... I was excited over the cage handles. I can think of oddball situations where they could really come in useful. Most of the time they wouldn't be on the camera and the configuration would probably be very light -- similar to this latest update render. I also liked the older cage concept where the handles were curved metal with multiple mount points. As far as I can tell, this is what Alexander is suggesting when he speaks of bending them to a half-moon shape with 1/4 20 HOLES. And the top mount holes are not new.

[Alexander Nikishin]

I also liked the older cage concept where the handles were curved metal with multiple mount points. As far as I can tell, this is what Alexander is suggesting when he speaks of bending them to a half-moon shape with 1/4 20 HOLES. And the top mount holes are not new.

The original design had those curved aluminum pieces with mount points didn't it? That was perfect, it wasn't as pretty, but from a practical standpoint, that design was very efficient.

The top mount isn't new but I think it's a mistake adding them onto the handle vs. them being an independent part.

[Alexander Nikishin]

This is a very old rendering from the DVXuser days so please disregard everything aside from the cage handles themselves. These handles take on a much lighter and versatile design. BTW, the rendering is courtesy of CVB, thanks Curt.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Here is a picture of the old cage design. (Via engadget / FXguide has the same pic in their archives) Somewhere I had some pics or link to some more of the stuff from NAB '06, but I don't know what I did with it at the moment.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Thanks Jeff, that's the one I was looking for.

[Brook Willard]

- I liked the old 4 handle cage ala "X-fighter" better

You can still do that with new handles that attach to the rods.

It sounds to me like they already have 19mm "cage" handles like in Curt's old render.

[Alexander Nikishin]

It sounds to me like they already have 19mm "cage" handles like in Curt's old render.

You sure? I interperted his statement as, you can take two of the new handle grips and create the same configuration as the previous one had? Hmm.