Playback and archive

[Scott Sniffen]

Can anyone fill us in on the process and ease of playback in the field? Also, how is the archiving of footage being addressed. Say one has finished and edited a project. Now what? Where does the footage reside?

[Andy Taplin]

I'm also not sure about the archive options.

i can see that the tapeless acquisition thing is the future but how do we archive huge data sets?

My clients sometimes come back years later and want stuff re-edited - where's the footage going to be?

The only thing I've seen recently that might work is the Ikegami holographhic storage system which they say is around 10 cents per GB.

Don't know if this could be adopted for RED transfers.

[Rob Lohman]

The camera can play the recordings back. Quite a lot of people probably bring a laptop (and possibly a 'truck' to backup footage shot / clear a magazine) and check on set. Bigger productions will probably have a video village with a DIT that records the HDMI or HD-SDI output from the camera to playback 720 or 1080 to the director and other people who need to check it while the camera crew gets ready for the next shot.

We're looking into tape systems for archival. Some customers also mentioned they might just store harddisks on a shelve.

Since the RED camera is an "IT" based camera (you record files to a drive which you then connect to a computer) the normal backup solutions like tape robots and such apply.

[Jeremy Newmark]

For the last 6 or 7 months, I've been looking into various archiving solutions that would best fit high-end, data-centric, video workflows. The best thing I've seen so far is the Quantum SDLT 600A tape drive. It can be plugged directly into your existing network, via Gigabit ethernet, and is then seen as a drive by any PC or MAC on your network. What's even better is that an LTO-3 version will be shipping next month, with higher capacity tapes and much faster transfer speeds. The form factor of the drive is not to big and could definitely be used for mobile solutions (ie plug into a laptop and dump your red drive data direct to tape while on set or on the road). There are a lot of benefits to this system, especially if you compare it to traditional video tape solutions. These drives are much cheaper then decks, tape capacities are much larger, archive life is 30 years and the system can be easily and inexpensively integrated into existing infrastructure. Check out these links

http://www.quantum.com/Products/Tape...00A/Index.aspx
http://www.quantum.com/AboutUs/Press...px?FullStory=4

I was really hoping that Red was going to suggest various back-up and archive solutions at NAB, but I haven't really herd anything come out of the Red camp in regards to this. I do remember Stuart or Rob mentioning the Quantum drive at one point, which gave me some comfort in my conclusion that this is one of the better solutions for the time being, but if anyone has found something better, please let us know. How is the Red team managing all the data that they've been acquiring?

best regards,

jeremy

[Jeremy Newmark]

Some customers also mentioned they might just store harddisks on a shelve.

I've herd a lot of people mention this and I know that it can be an attractive idea, because hard drives have become so cheap, but in the long run I don't think it's a good idea. Hard drives are not built to sit on shelves, they need to be spinning in order to stay healthy. I see a lot of people archiving this way now, but what happens 2 years down the road when they need to pull some footage and they dust off that drive that all of a sudden won't spin up. I'm sure this system will work to a certain extent, but the reliability just isn't there, especially for long-term archiving solutions.

best regards,

jeremy

[Stuart English]

I concur. Data tape appears to be the most practical and robust digital archive choice. Quantum's networkable LTO-3 drive is going to be a good choice, and I'm still interested in the AIT-5 drive family from Sony, as they are smaller and less expensive, so a good compliment to the faster LTO-3 product.

[Andy Taplin]

Those Quantum tape drives look like they could be the answer. For me having this issue properly addressed and resolved would be key to purchasing a Red.

[C.H.Haskell]

I have researched much of the market for this on going storage debate and obviously your budget will dictate what solution is best for you. The holographic technology (ie. Inphase) looks promising but early to tell and still expensive (for the indie user) and for myself I have found Quantum's SDLT 600a solution to fit the bill. A producer friend of mine would prefer the Sony AIT-5 route because he feels he can rely on SONY still being around in the next 30 years to service parts etc, not a bad point…plus its cheaper.

Best

[Michael Hastings]

I have wondered about this as far as the hard drives long term health. Although I understand the issues of lubricants and bearings getting stuck, isn't the data on the platters actually as much or more robust than the tapes? I've always thought that all of the different tape formats, video and data, were a huge long term problem because interchange becomes an issue over time and finding a drive to play your old format could be tough. It seems to me a lot tougher to keep a helical scan, spinning head type of machine working - or to build a new one sometime down the road (think about what it would cost to have Sony or Ampex build a new D2 machine 10 years from now).

It seems like fairly soon the IT world and/or the government ought to call for either a standard tape format and/or a standard drive format designed specifically for long term archival use. It seems to me drive platters ultimately would be more robust since there is no tape to stretch, curl, stick to itself, etc. Optical always sounds great but it seems to have had significant degradation issues even in the short time we have been using optical discs.

What is the record of the various data tape formats from 10-20 years ago still working well today?

I've herd a lot of people mention this and I know that it can be an attractive idea, because hard drives have become so cheap, but in the long run I don't think it's a good idea. Hard drives are not built to sit on shelves, they need to be spinning in order to stay healthy. I see a lot of people archiving this way now, but what happens 2 years down the road when they need to pull some footage and they dust off that drive that all of a sudden won't spin up. I'm sure this system will work to a certain extent, but the reliability just isn't there, especially for long-term archiving solutions.

best regards,

jeremy

[Andy Taplin]

No single archive medium is going to be 1000%. Apart from silicon tablets engraved by lasers maybe.

Seriously though I would not bank on any particular drive technology lasting more than a few years - my Beta SP deck blew up the other day so no way of looking at old SP easily now.

I like the idea of an international standard - hard to imagine it happening though.