ProRes422, no 1080p???

[TimothyD]

I posted this in another thread which was in OT, but I didn't get any responses, so I thought I'd post this here:

(In regard to ProRes422)

In reading it (white paper) I did notice something troubling though. It looks as if Apple only plans to support 1080i and not 1080p. This is very unfortunate in my opinion because I plan to shoot and edit progressive and only use interlacing when outputting for broadcast (a small portion of what I do).

Is this a problem for anyone else? For me, it ensures that I will only use Prores as a delivery format, not for editing. I will be using Redcode for all editing.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this???

Tim

[martinnoweck]

I think about renting a HD deck when delivering for broadcast and use Redcode for editing.

Martin

[TimothyD]

I just was super excited about ProRes422 and had somehow missed the fact that they left out 1080p. I have no love for interlaced video, and want it to get as far out of my workflow as possible. So this is major for me.

I have to wonder how this might impact my workflow. Will Redcode work as the render codec? Or will we be faced with a half-a** choice of using either 1080i or even 720p to render? If so, this seems like Apple really screwed up here. I realize they made ProRes to provide an efficient codec for editing HD for broadcast. I just wish they had thought about the fact that people really don't want to work in 1080i if they can have 1080p...

Tim

[Chris Kenny]

ProRes supports 1080p. This was reported by folks at NAB. It isn't mentioned explicitly in the white paper, but there is a chart there that mentions ProRes does 1920x1080 @ 23.976 fps. That's pretty unlikely to be an interlaced format!

Update: see screen shot from ProRes movie on Apple's web site.



Everything up to 1080p30.

[martinnoweck]

that sounds like good news - i am no fan of interlaced, too!

[TimothyD]

Ok, I hope I don't sound stupid here, but isn't 1080p 60 going to be required to get good results if outputting 1080i for broadcast? That is my concern. I would be happy to shoot in 1080p 30, but I need to have a finished product that is 1080i for broadcast.

[Michael Schrengohst]

I thought 1080 23.976 is broadcastable????
I know several shows that deliver masters
on HDCAM in that format....
I delivered a 1080 23.976 .TS stream to
a university that plays everyday from
an MPEG server....

[Chris Kenny]

Ok, I hope I don't sound stupid here, but isn't 1080p 60 going to be required to get good results if outputting 1080i for broadcast? That is my concern. I would be happy to shoot in 1080p 30, but I need to have a finished product that is 1080i for broadcast.

It depends. If you're making a feature, you'll probably want acquire at 4K, 24 fps, edit using FCP's REDCODE support (once available), and then add pulldown for 1080i deliverables at the end.

If you're producing something more like regular TV programing with 1080i as the primary deliverable, shoot 1080p60 RGB (once that's available) or 2K RAW at 60 fps, and then convert to 1080i ProRes via REDCINE or FCP's "Log & Transfer", and edit that. Yeah, everyone hates interlaced, but if that's your primary deliverable, you're probably better off editing in it.

[Evin Grant]

If you're shooting 24P for a film look then your footage will have a 3:2 pulldown added for broadcast in 1080i anyway. If your shooting for 1080i video look then 720 60P will cross convert to the 1080i format beautifully.
You can do a conversion from 1080 60P to 60i Redcine but I would be very surprised if there were any appreciable gain in quality. Essentially 720 60P and 1080 60I are the same resolution, one has more temporal resolution (720) the other has a bigger raster but only displays it one field (50%) at a time. Your call.

[TimothyD]

Hi Chris,

*First, before I forget, I won't be doing any features*

While my deliverable will be 1080i when it is for broadcast, most if not all of what I do is also for the web. That means that while only 10 or less of what I do needs to be output as 1080i, the rest will suffer from interlacing unless I go with something that can be shot and edited progressive, and output as 1080i when necessary for broadcast (5% of the time at most).

Therein lies my problem. So the question is, will 1080p30 look as good as 1080i60 when output as such? It seems like I may run into problems, and that is why I assumed that 1080p60 would be my acquisition and edit format of choice???

Tim