Where are my BLACKS?

[D. A. Metrov]

Hi,

I just finished directing a short film shot on the RED. I don't own the RED, but I'm now editing the footage in Premiere CS4. We shot everything in 4k. Everything is working great in PrePro, except I'm still trying to find the best solution for final render.

I've followed the "RED plugin workflow guide" to do some export tests. The footage looks awesome on my computer in both PrePro & AE. But when I render "Mpg2 DVD" files out of AE, then burn a standard format DVD in Encore, then project that using my HD projector, I'm really losing my blacks, especially in the wider shots.

I have a friend who's highly techinical [I'm not], and he said that the "Color Space" must be determined BEFORE importing into Premiere, otherwise, the blacks may never render properly. However, I don't really understand how to do that.

Is there a tutorial or workflow page for the COLOR CORRECTION process? I seem to recall seeing one on this forum, but can't find it now.

Any tips for getting the best looking render much appreciated. Thanks.

[Stefan Scherperel]

My personal experiences with working in CS4 and rendering red footage or any footage for that matter are WMV, h.264 and mpeg codecs all lift my low end gamma. If I render out to a non interframe codec or uncompressed avi or quicktime the blacks seem to be at their proper levels. Why this is, I'm still not sure and a little frustrated, and although I can't really answer your question I hope this gives a little more insight.

[D. A. Metrov]

Thanks. I hope we can both get a little more feedback on why this is. And/or tips to workaround it. I shot on RED hoping to get a really rich, luscious look which I've seen in plenty of made-for-computer videos, but going to DVD may be a different issue.

[D. A. Metrov]

I just discovered that when playing the same DVD on my regular TV, the blacks are fine, just perfect. So now I guess it's a matter of finding a happy medium between how it looks projected on a screen and on TV.

Thanks

[MichaelP]

Remember that computers etc, use the full 0-255 RGB range. Digital television specs go form 16-235. Depending on monitor, encoder expectations, etc, this can be changed creating the issues you are seeing.

Michael

[John Tissavary]

Hi,

...then project that using my HD projector, I'm really losing my blacks, especially in the wider shots.

Have you viewed the mpeg2 on your computer monitor? Is it different than the projected image? If so...

The HD projector is more likely than not contributing to your polluted blacks. Most consumer & pro-sumer grade projectors really aren't very good at blacks.

Also, mgeg-2 encoding can produce shifts in blacks as well, like Michael P hinted.

You could have problems anywhere/everywhere in your monitoring chain. Without calibrated monitors, you can't be sure that what you are working with in RedCine, RedAlert, Premiere, or anywhere on your computer, is color and luminance accurate. For that matter, most consumer computer displays are incapable of reproducing accurate luminance from black to white, so you'll get divergence, particularly in shadows and highlights, from one display to another, especially in the shadows (blacks).

But remember, your CC can only be as good as the monitor you are relying on for visual feedback. Color critical monitors for DI start in the multiple thousands of dollars range and quickly go up from there. Monitors that are decently capable of reproducing color & luminance for basic color grading would include high end Eizo and HP Dreamcolor (I like the Dreamcolor a lot) - these are @ $2,500 these days.

And without proper calibration even the most expensive monitor is highly suspect...

DISCLAIMER: I'm a colorist....
The best advice I can give to anyone doing color correction is to spring for someone with experience to do it, and hopefully learn a few things in the process that can help you accomplish your own more successful CC down the road. It's a complex and finnicky craft, and does require that hardware be up to the task.

cheers,

JT

[D. A. Metrov]

Thanks so much for the input. Since this is a very low budget project, and we're already way over [LOL], we won't be buying any expensive monitors, or hiring colorists [sorry, John :)]. At this point, I'm realizing it's simply going to come down to a lot of testing/experimenting to find the best results.

Cheers

[joshtownsend]

You have to know at least a little bit about color to work with RED. I mean they are RAW files and isn't the whole point? Most people who shoot RAW on a DSLR do the correction their self and get great results. I'm all of us would love to hire pro's for every aspect of production but unless your doing a big budget product it's not financially feasible.

That said if I had the money I'd love to hire someone like you John.