Best REDrushes output to use in DI?

[Jon Schwartz]

I'm finishing a no-budget short film that we shot on a borrowed RED camera. To conform the film, I was planning on converting all of our dailies to 4K DPX files through REDrushes, conforming the film in After Effects CS3, outputting to 2K DPX, and then shipping the 2K conform off to a colorist who is donating his time.

I'm conforming in After Effects because it's free and because there are a number of simple pushes, zooms, etc., to execute.

My question is: what Color Space and Gamma Space settings should I use in REDrushes? I want the highest-quality logarithmic DPX files REDrushes can make. Are these the correct settings to go with:

Look Source: Camera
Color Space: REDspace
Gamma Space: REDlog

Or different settings?

And what's the "PDlog 685" setting in Color Space?

Thanks so much for any advice!

Jon

[Jonas Rejman]

RED is 12 bit linear.

I therefore suggest the following "digital intermediate"

16bit TIFF, Cameraspace: CameraRGB, Gamma space: linear

Huge files, but everything from the sensor is preserved.
Create a neutral RSX file, in RED alert, by reseting all settings and use it in redrushes or redline. Do not touch the iso. As you do not go to log, no DPX, no conversion of anything.

The colorist can put a rec709 curve on the files, and start grading. His system need to be able to playback the tiffs though.
I would not try linear DPX, as this is a mess and not reliable.

[Jon Schwartz]

Jonas,

Thank you for your clear, cogent response.

I'm afraid that the colorist who's doing us a favor requires that we deliver the show as a log DPX sequence. Since I'll be conforming in After Effects, I can export from REDrushes as 16bit linear TIFF, then do the conversion to log DPX in After Effects. Do you think that's the best plan?

If I had to export from REDrushes directly to log DPX, what settings would I want?

Thanks!

Jon

[Jon Schwartz]

Jonas,

Also, it appears that I can use REDAlert to generate an RLX file (using the Save Preset option in the File menu), but I can't seem to make a RSX file. What am I missing?

Again, thanks so much for the helpful advice! Your trailer for "Carved" look incredible!

Thanks,
Jon

[Uli Plank]

The .RSX is generated automatically every time you grade in RA and put in the folder of the clip.

[Jonas Rejman]

Yeah, that is a bit tricky with the RSX.

You open a shot in RA, and reset all settings.
RA will generate a RSX file in the same folder as the shot.
It is NOT what you can "save as" within the app.
Take this file, copy it elsewhere, and rename it e.g. to linear.rsx .

What grading solution is the colorist using? Maybe R3D support is around the corner.
It really is as simple as putting a rec709 gamma on the linear files, and start rollin'. Maybe if you tell him, that the dpx will force you to pre-grade and that he will not have 100% control over the colors?
Or how a bout a little slap on the a$$, so that he opens his mind to new workflows? - that worked for our baselight colorists...

Going log from a lin medium really does not make any sense and introduces a lot of room for errors. Therefore, try to avoid it, if its not necessary.

[Dominic Jones]

DPX doesn't really force you to "pre-grade" - the best bet, a route we've followed for a bunch of projects with DPX finish, (assuming that your colourist is happy with this - ours always have been) is to output a redlog DPX stack and give these to the colourist.

Personally, I would conform via Crimson from an FCP XML and then output your DPX stack via RedCine from that pull list - but I'm sure there are other ways...

This will preserve the full information that is (was) captured by the sensor, without any grading decisions having been made before the footage gets to the colourist.

[Jonas Rejman]

That is not true.

DPX in redlog forces you to make choices on what information from the 12 bit linear you put into the 10bit log format.

The difference is small, but this conversion is destructive. It may not matter, when you have all perfectly exposed material. But once you start to push to limits, you will have a lower headroom.

In a redlog/redspace/pdlog(corrected) DPX and TIFF comparison, I found that the 16bit linear TIFF from the RED ONE has more info for grading in it, than a 10bit log DPX.

[simonpeterarnold]

RED is 12 bit linear.

I therefore suggest the following "digital intermediate"

16bit TIFF, Cameraspace: CameraRGB, Gamma space: linear

Huge files, but everything from the sensor is preserved.
Create a neutral RSX file, in RED alert, by reseting all settings and use it in redrushes or redline. Do not touch the iso. As you do not go to log, no DPX, no conversion of anything.

The colorist can put a rec709 curve on the files, and start grading. His system need to be able to playback the tiffs though.
I would not try linear DPX, as this is a mess and not reliable.

Tiffs are ok if you do not need timecode, otherwise you have to count frames or play with the file header to get the timecod metadata in.

[Jonas Rejman]

You also can use filetimecode, when using the -V settings in redline.
Baselight conforms splendid that way.
All you need to know is the framerate you shot in.

Frame Settings:
-s or --start <int> : start frame
-e or --end <int> : end frame
-S or --startTC <timecode> : start TC as "00:01:00:00"
-E or --endTC <timecode> : end TC "00:01:00:00"
--useEC : use EdgeCode instead of TimeOfDay/EXT TC
-V or --renum <int> : new start frame number or -1 for timecode as frame count from 00:00:00:00
i.e. 00:00:02:00 = frame 48 @ 24fps