1. For projects like Jeremy's a direct feed to camera is practical, efficient and adequate. This group is a large part of the camera's target audience.
2. Dailies- having synched scratch audio embedded into the files makes turning out dailies quicker. I'm guessing that assistant editors love this.
You seem worried but don't fret; this doesn't threaten sound jobs. Good sound techs are still required to capture a good feed whether it is going only to camera, or also to outboard multitrack.
I would strongly advise going 2 system audio with the RED build 17... You can still get decent audio at Line Level by adjusting the output from a SD442 Mixer and the input of the RED. You have to experiment (before actual production of course) with your mics/mixer/camera settings to obtain the best audio. I still think it makes sense to have 24-bit 48K audio recorded on an SD or Deva recorder sunc with a smart slate and planning for the time to sync dailies until RED can come up with a stable audio card/recording system that can handle the same quality of a Sound Devices or Deva recorder without the hassles.
I just sent in one of my cameras for the audio board upgrade, and this thread has me a tad concerned...and confused. Oh well, I guess I'll refer back to it once I have a chance to test the new board.
I am trying to figure out whether or not to upgrade the audio board on my Red One. We were contacted by Red to let us know that we are up for the "RED One upgrade program." A lot of the program sounds great! However, I am hesitant to upgrade the "audio boards."
My reasons are as listed:
1) Our sound mixer has had problems working with the new audio boards and says that we should "keep ours as is!" We currently have great audio recording to the camera, via mixer and some -20db pad cables. Our sound mixer says that with the new audio boards, he insists on recording dual-source and has now incorporated -30db padded cables.
2) 2 of our other sound mixers say that they still prefer the original audio boards, now that they know how to "work them."
3) I am a cameraman and listen to my sound mixers who have provided me great sound so far!
I want to hear about other experiences. Anyone?
And to the RED Bomb Squad (with much respect), may I send in my RED ONE under the following circumstances?
a) for the i-pin install and "a tuneup that will include full camera diagnostics, re-seating of joystick knob, upgrading CF reader/writer to current gen with 16 GB CF card support, replacing many hex screws with Torx Plus screws, cleaning of OLPF and ventilation chamber, etc?"
b) leaving the original audio boards and follow my "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosphy?
Thank you RED for producing a digital cinema package that I love to work with.
RedONE (2501) /MKII's / Angenieux HR / 2060
The 702t / 302 difference might simply be different ballistics of the meters or performance of the tone generator itself, the 7## being a digitally produced sine wave and the 302 using an analog oscillator. The advanced settings on the 302 have quite a few output adjustment options "hidden" in a documented setup mode.
It sounds like a few people on this thread might simply have defective boards. Especially those people that are reporting hot audio levels on the meters and actually experiencing -30dB or lower levels on the workstation.
I don't like to do this, but sometimes I have to set my 302 padded down to mic level and then use the mic inputs on the camera. Conceptually this gain strategy would be at a disadvantage to sending a hot line signals, but in fact some cameras perform better with mic inputs than line inputs. I don't think that the REDs that I have worked with, both old and new boards, have every been fed anything other than line level by me, and haven't had major problems with either version of the board once I knew what to look for. I have seen "damaged" boards where different inputs seemed to be all over the place with respect to their own levels relative to each other. Headroom can also be limited (perhaps due to electronic damage), but to play it safe, I always recommend recording double with scratch audio sent to the camera. Every effort is made to keep the scratch audio of the highest quality possible, but it keeps my mind at ease being able to know that I can do the job asked of me with as few technical glitches as possible. Camera department appreciates me staying away from their camera too, I'm sure, as my scratch audio is always sent via a wireless hop.
Just received my upgrade and ran a line level test. -20 tone from Sound Devices, line input to Red at 0dB. (the other option is +10)
tone hit the hash mark, maybe a touch hot. Audio was fine as long as I did not exceed -20 out of the mixer. Not much headroom above that. Got pretty crunchy if there was any red on the Sound devices meter, which corresponds to yellow on the Red Camera meter.
The test tone reads out as -16 in FCP, which is -28 below unity.
How much headroom are you estimating James ?
No comment on FCP audio level scale... we know a -20dBFS tone input delivers a -20dBFS output..
dbFS is dB Full Scale, maximum of 0dbFS.
Reference level is -20 dBFS or -18 dBFS depending where you are in world and what standard you work to.
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