Problem with 2 16GB Cards Failing On Set

[donovangreene@mac.com]

I worked as a DIT on a high end commercial production last week, and had issues with 2 16GB RED CF cards failing in the field. We had no problem until two days into the shoot. Late in day 2 one card came out of our B camera and was placed into a card reader, it didn't mount on the desktop. We put the card back in the camera and nothing showed up. I contacted RED and sent the card back for data recovery the following morning. The next shoot day, day 3, everything was back to normal. We were shooting with our A camera and mid way through the morning the camera recorded three clips to a card just fine, and then on the fourth clip it froze during it's POSTING operation for about ten minutes. I hit record again to see if I could end the cycle and then after no response hit Power. That card was not readable by a card reader or the camera again. I sent that back to RED last week.

We had two different cards fail in two different camera bodies. The weather was mid sixties, no rain. One of the cards never reached the flash card reader in the computer, so it wasn't a Lexar card reader malfunction.

Red has been recovering the data for the last week, but I need to figure out what happened. RED hasn't figured out what happened.

Any ideas, comments, similar experiences would be much appreciated.

[J. Eric Camp]

What build is the camera?
What version is the CF module in the cameras?
Was Max checked or unchecked?
Were you recording audio?
Were you providing Phantom power?

[Andrew Walker]

I haven't had problems like this with my 16GB cards. But sometimes when I swap cards I have to power down the camera and power it back up with the card in the slot for the card to show up. Also the cards seem to only go up to 105fps in 2K 2:1 RC 36, the drive can go up to 120fps in this same mode. I was lead to believe that the cards could operate at the same speed as the drive.

[Evin Grant]

The 16GB cards are great but are much more sensitive than the 8s to formatting and data issues. I had one of mine take a crap during a music video. It did the neverending "Post" trick. Luckily we just re-shot the lost takes. Since then I've formatted the card in a computer and then the camera and everything seems fine. It may be a good idea to low-level format the cards every few weeks just to be safe.

[Brent@RED]

As has been mentioned in a few other posts, the vast majority of the time when something like this happens, the smoking gun is the external card reader. Or, on much rarer occasions, a pin being bent on the internal card reader/writer. Being part of the loop on the conversations you have had with tech support here, Donovan, that is what we figured out most likely happened.

Looks like one time the card was fine in the camera, then put in external reader, the damaged occurred. Looks like the other, it hung on POST then you tried on camera and external reader again, and the card was damaged. In both cases, the reader was involved.

CF cards are very, very reliable. If there is an issue, look to your readers first. One that is faulty or a low-end (eg, non-UDMA approved) can corrupt footage. We have seen quite a bit.

BC

[Andrew Walker]

Brent what about the slower than normal fps? Is 105fps 2K 2:1 RC 36 top speed for the 16GB cards...at RC 36? I can get 120fps if I shoot in RC 28.

[Brent@RED]

Page 28 of Ops Guide - Framerate table :)

16 GB CARD: REDCODE 36, 2K 2:1, 100 fps

BC

[Sidney L. Plaut]

brent what is best cf reader to buy? - speed and "not cf card damaging" wise...

[donovangreene@mac.com]

The external card reader was used was a Lexar with firewire 800 on the back, I don't have the model number. I did a visual inspection of the pins and they appeared fine, that reader was also used to download several other CF cards before and after that issue happened without any problems.

On the second card that was problematic it recorded three takes with no problem, and then froze during a post error on the fourth take. The card was not removed from the camera between any of these takes. There was no way for the card to have bent a pin between takes three and four. The camera was rebooted and the card could not be read. THEN the card was put into the external card reader and that card reader could see there was a drive attached, but could not read it.

I can see that the external card reader MAY have been a problem in the first CF card issue, but fail to see how it could have been a part of the problem with the second CF card issue.

Evin- When you say you are formatting in a computer, what is the process exactly? What do you mean by low-level format every couple of week?

I was shooting 24 frames, max was selected, it was build 17.3, I was not recording audio or phantom power.

Thanks again for all the responses. I'm just trying to figure this situation out so I know what to tell the client and the production company so they will feel comfortable shooting RED again in the future.

Thanks
Donovan Greene

[Brent@RED]

I always recommend: http://www.lexar.com/readers/pro_udma_reader.html

BC