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  1. #21  
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    We did a side by side test with film for a studio project and took both all the way through film out and print. The conclusion for the studio was that it was no different than film after view butterflied tests. Footage shot was low light, interiors, and high contrast outdoors.

    There were two other projects that did the same test with the same results that different post houses showed us but the producer wanted to do his own tests.

    The CTO at the studio did all sorts of measurements and concluded the strobing was the expected 24p cadence.
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  2. #22  
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    but what about projects not shot for filmout,which 80% of the red shoots are i guess?
    red is not a color, it's a camera.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cüneyt Kaya View Post
    but what about projects not shot for filmout,which 80% of the red shoots are i guess?
    FWIW, the results were the same in DI before filmout.

    There were suggestions in an earlier thread that LCD screens boost the contrast so much plus run at 60hz which adds a strobing effect. We didn't specifically test with film on LCD but we did see more strobing on a cheap desktop monitor than we did on a higher end LCD running at 24hz.

    Maybe this is what you're seeing?
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  4. #24  
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    the problem was also seen while testing on a 40 k usd class A monitor and a projector.
    system was baselight.
    but thank you for the information.


    edit:
    there will be online trailers of this movie,
    and i dont guess that average joe with average desktop is ok with stuttering images in a trailer...
    he doesnt care if its shot with a mobile phone or something else, and a side note like please watch in vlc player to not get stuttering images is not acceptable, it just have to work.

    we just need to dig a little more to find a solution.

    still, we all have to learn a lot about raw digital cinema and how to present it properly to the audience in all mediums.
    red is not a color, it's a camera.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member Roberto Lequeux's Avatar
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    Is there less motion blur than there should be in the footage?

    This is worrying me a bit.
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carsten Fenstermacher View Post
    poor average joe has to put up with tearing, inconsistent frame rates, mismatched display rates, banding, blocky, overcompressed trailers. i have to be average joe sometime and i hates it.

    for strobing though we does film panning rates and have not had problem yet with strobing. early on when there was lots of discussion about strobing we did test of many panning speeds and the film rate tables was best results. we repeated the same tests for f35 and f23 to be safe and results were same.
    we have different pov`s
    i see average joe paying my bill by watching the movie, so i try to please him.


    i guess this will get soon to something like pc vs mac.
    strobe as film vs. not like film
    red is not a color, it's a camera.
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto Lequeux View Post
    Is there less motion blur than there should be in the footage?

    This is worrying me a bit.
    That might be the case, but changing the shutter angle doesn't fix it. I think it has something to do with LCD screens and the resolution of the red image. The strobing changes due to the screen I am looking at, which leads me to believe it is at least somewhat dependent on viewing source. It seems like it ghosts slightly in a progressive fashion especially on a computer monitor. I don't notice it on a CRT.
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by SF Geek View Post
    That might be the case, but changing the shutter angle doesn't fix it.
    That's what I said a while back. The shutter angle doesn't seem to make any difference to the image seen on the LCD display. The only thing that makes the footage look better is "open gate" but that's just upping the LCD refresh rate.

    I only noticed the stuttering after my RED was upgraded to the new boards/ put build 17 on. It never bothered me once in the year before that. I thought I was just imagining it but more people seem to be talking about it now so maybe I'm not crazy.
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  9. #29  
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    Unfortunately with the SALT test I have a bit too much on my plate to try and test this stuff for you guys now. My general experience has been that the viewing device is extremely important when judging judder. I have seen it but it doesn't bother me most of the time and often it is gone when viewing on CRT or 24hz 1080P/2K projectors. I also saw Knowing and quite a few other test film outs and the judder never seemed worse than 35mm although slightly different in feel. I would use the 35mm panning speed guides as Carsten recommends. I guess the answer is that this is the look of the Red One, you either like it or you don't. I doubt there is a "fix" other than using a panning speed you've tested and are comfortable with.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Mike Prevette's Avatar
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    I really do think most of what people are seeing is a result of the viewing path. LCD's (especially cheap ones and even some expensive ones) have a very slow refresh time compared to CRT's. It certainly effects me in the edit room. Clips look different on my twin 23" dells and my 43" LCD on the wall.
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