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  1. #61  
    Senior Member Stephen Williams's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I am very happy with normal 24 fps motion blur from film, it gives the film look, the last thing I want to do is make everything look like video motion.

    I found all the camera motion & people moving quite disturbing in 'Knowing', had I not wanted to see how the camera performed throughout the film I would have walked out after 10 minutes.

    Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by Iannis Holwech View Post
    I might be out of my league with this suggestion so please bear over with me.

    First; Here is a white paper repport of a test BBC did last year to find the framerates that eliminate film/motion judder and the ability to capture fast moving objects without judder and smearing in a possible future TV standard.
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  2. #62  
    Senior Member Daniel Browning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Williams View Post
    had I not wanted to see how the camera performed throughout the film I would have walked out after 10 minutes.
    The motion and stutter looked completely normal to me.

    If I wanted to see how the RED ONE camera performed, I would attend a digital projection. If I wanted to see how the local film projector performed, I would attend a film projection.

    Of course, since release prints are so much poorer than digital projection, and all our local film projection theaters are poorly focused, dim, and jittery, I stopped attending them 6 years ago when we got 2K.

    I'm sure you have a good reason for attending a film projection, but I don't.
    --Daniel Browning
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  3. #63  
    Senior Member James Brundige's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddy MOST View Post
    OMG... same problem here.
    We made some tested today ... I'm from a PAL country and for some obvious reasons we have to use 25 fps.
    I was quite frightened to see all this stuttering when panning, as well as some stuttering effect on things moving to fast in the front of the camera (such a hand)...
    I look for some infos and I found this thread... I notice that a lot of people are experiencing this problem and I was quite surprised to see it this night by myself...
    I have never seen such stuttering in my life (used HPX500, HPX 2100, HVX200 as well as DVX100... lol)
    and I thought the camera needed a very good reset to get all the preset out or maybe something was missing on the camera on in FCP setting but after reading all those posts
    I concluded that it comes from the camera ... sad... sad ...

    Anyway I'll try to use 24fps for testing as well as slow shutter speed maybe different angles ,... and see what is happening then ...
    We are using Master Prime By the way...
    The problem I had with pans turned out to be a playback issue with Final Cut. I ran the shots through Apple Cinema Tools, and conformed them to my output frame rate, and everything became smooth.
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  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Williams View Post
    Hi,

    I am very happy with normal 24 fps motion blur from film, it gives the film look, the last thing I want to do is make everything look like video motion.

    I found all the camera motion & people moving quite disturbing in 'Knowing', had I not wanted to see how the camera performed throughout the film I would have walked out after 10 minutes.

    Stephen
    Hi Stephen,

    The version I watched did not look noticably bad, strobing wise.

    The computer screens in one scene had a flicker on them but I put that down to how they were shot. We've been shooting ads for Nintendo and every one of them has had monitors in them and the camera has picked up the detail very well. I believe they even skipped out overlaying the consoles output as intended because it held up so well in parts. I'm surprised they didn't redo the computer screens in post in Knowing.

    I wasn't keen on some of the grading in the movie in places and whether that was a consequence of a lack of dynamic range is questionable, I was very surprised at the sheer amount of dimly lit scenes having chosen the Red camera to shoot with. That being said I was also surprised at how well it handled them. Generally the whole film's look had an odd feel to it that didn't quite seem right, but it wasn't completely to do with the camera. It was a very oppressive film at points, very dim and unappealing. I'd like to see the film displayed digitally as well as pick it up on dvd to watch on a TV screen so I can knowingly compare to other movies.

    Paul

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  5. #65  
    Senior Member Sanjin Jukic's Avatar
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    Again, about my R1 examples that are without "Stuttering image while Panning"

    If you see it (on these tests links below) that have the same problems described as above than it is because of a genaral monitor

    incompatibility, shots captured at 25 fps we mostly can watch at 60Hz computer monitors, etc...

    Some of the panning quick & dirty examples find here>>>

    Quick & dirty clip footage download here>>>>
    "There is no point in having sharp images when you've fuzzy ideas."
    Jean-Luc Godard.

    Dynamic range is, after all, the measurement between well saturation (photosite blowout) and noise floor.
    Thom Hogan
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  6. #66  
    From the BBC white paper:

    objects within the scene at speeds higher than three pixels
    per field/frame eliminates all of the additional detail gained by the use of high definition.
    Perhaps Red leverage the technology in RedRay to create a 4k up to 300fps projection standard. Epic FF35 will do 350fps at 2k BTW.

    The images may not have that "film look" but perhaps an amazingly detailed look all of their own.

    Stefan
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  7. #67  
    Senior Member Stephen Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Browning View Post

    I'm sure you have a good reason for attending a film projection, but I don't.
    Hi,

    I live in Switzerland, the only option was film projection, seems like a reasonable reason to me.

    Stephen
    Epic Dragon owner, the first upgraded camera in Switzerland :D
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  8. #68  
    Senior Member Stephen Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulClements View Post
    Hi Stephen,

    I wasn't keen on some of the grading in the movie in places and whether that was a consequence of a lack of dynamic range is questionable, I was very surprised at the sheer amount of dimly lit scenes having chosen the Red camera to shoot with. That being said I was also surprised at how well it handled them. Generally the whole film's look had an odd feel to it that didn't quite seem right, but it wasn't completely to do with the camera. It was a very oppressive film at points, very dim and unappealing. I'd like to see the film displayed digitally as well as pick it up on dvd to watch on a TV screen so I can knowingly compare to other movies.

    Paul
    Hi Paul,

    I felt the low light performance was better than the 'day' performance. I found the motion throughout the film rather unpleasant & the wide shots lacking in resoloution, neither were an issue at all with the 4K material I saw at IBC.

    Stephen
    Epic Dragon owner, the first upgraded camera in Switzerland :D
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  9. #69  
    Senior Member Marc Berger's Avatar
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    The stuttering image is one of the reason why I prefer the EVF over the LCD. If "open gate" is not enabled the EVF picture start to stutter during to fast panning in the same way like my final output.
    Anybody else uses the EVF for stuttering control?
    Marc
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  10. #70 could it be 4k 1:2 issue? 
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    I heard that maybe it's the 1:2 problem, that if you will shoot 16:9, it wont show this problem? is that true?
    Ariel.
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