Calculating price

[Christoffer Glans]

Hi!
I'm quite new to this forum but I have followed the development of the RED camera since I first thought it was a joke that someone would sell such a camera for such a low price

Anyway, I'm planning to buy this camera in a year or two, whenever I'm able to pay the price (in other words whenever I sell my car, my appartment, my self etc)
So, I'm trying to calculate just how much I need to spend/how many things I need to have to be able to go from A to B in the workflow. Currently I have the capability to edit 1080p footage at my home workstation. But if I'm going to do something in 2k or 4k I'm going to a postprod-house instead. So postproduction is not calculated into the price.
I just need to know what I need for production, not counting lightning equipment or sound.

What do I need except the RED camera to be able to go through a shortfilm production?

I have currently done this calculation of what I need:

1. RED ONE - $17500
2. RED ONE BASIC PRODUCTION PACK - $1250
3. RED ONE POWER PACK - $1450
4. RED LCD Screen (5.6") - $1700
5. RED DRIVE 320gb x2 - $1800
6. RED FD MOUNT (Canon) (EF if that's something that will happen) - $500

Now, I'm not sure what type of workflow I'm aiming at, but what I will do, when making my own movies is to shoot in 4k, convert to 1080p and edit in Avid, then burn to Bluray 1080p and keep a high quality master on three harddrives. Maybe the CF is a better workflow when shooting, I don't know.

What are your thoughts about this? Am I totally "out there" or is this the minimum of what I need to achieve my independent dreams?
Or is there something I don't really need?

Please answer, I can't get my head around this...

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

I would get the evf rather than the lcd, well actually I'll be getting both inshallah
And I think if you are planning to go out into the wilderness to film you'll need 3 batteries and three drives; can you imagine running out of either when there is stlll some great filming to be done?

And if you are going with canon lenses you'll need the Birger mount so that you can use the best L series glass. Otherwise Nikon will give you more options.

[Christoffer Glans]

Ok, three drives sounds good. As for the L-series I'm a still photographer, but the only L-serie glass I have is the 17-40. But because I use canon I need something that can make me use EF lenses.
So the Birger is the one that enables you to use EF lenses?

[Gregory Karydis]

I know I will be going for the Birger mount for my L babies and I plan to get the EVF along with the camera and maybe get the LCD a while later.
As for batteries I'll get the 2 battery + charger set since I don't expect to be shooting more than an hour every day (for my first project) and then I'll get more V-mount packs from a local supplier (I'm in europe)
I am hoping to afford the basics and not stray much over the 25-27K ballpark I have prepared for.
But I'd say 30K would be a bare minimum if you don't have any sort of glass.

[Charles Angus]

What about sticks and a head? Follow focus & matte box?

What are those going for these days? I'm assuming you would need something like a 7+7 for the RED, with some good aluminum sticks.

[Christoffer Glans]

The downside of the Birger is that it cost so much. I only have one L glass and a few regular canon glasses, so I wonder if it would cost me less if I choose the Nikon and buy some of their glasses just for this camera.

Followfocus would be nice, but a mattebox? I'll just use some blackwrap :D

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I was hearing a good matte box for the RED would be like $3,000. There's another overpriced item. Should cost $20, actually costs $3,000. lol, j/k. ;)

[Christoffer Glans]

I'll still say blackwrap!
But a $20 matte box would be nice, any higher then that = blackwrap! :D

Still, except for the EVF instead of LCD, is there anything else I must have or is that kit all I need?

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Am I missing something though about why a matte box would cost so much? I clearly don't understand why anything in this industry costs so much, I mean I get why a computer fully loaded could cost $15,000, and I get why a camera and lenses would cost $60,000 for a great RED package, that all seems reasonable.

Someone mind explaining why something as simple looking and basic as a matte box could honestly cost $3,000? I mean there's no way that thing is impossible to duplicate unless I missed it and there's some microchip hidden inside it or something. I don't get it?

I found a lot of posts on this on other forums, it seems I'm not alone in thinking something as simple as a matte box is again hideously and almost hilarious overpriced. One guy wrote that it's "...a piece of hardware which is only expensive due to the small audience it atracts. That is the only reason these companies charge so much. Its a small turnover so high cost. When you think you can go out and buy a cheap HDV camcorder for the same price as a well known brand Mattebox it makes me sick. We are all playing with high end stuff here and because of that we are expected to pay over the odds for add ons. ... Lets face it, its not exactly breaking technology you are making here. Its not the latest RED or SI camera now is it."

This was the best post I found, when someone asked if the matte box gives you film-like results with a digital camera: "Yes, an expensive professional mattebox is absolutely critical in achieving the "film look." A lot of people try useless techniques such as 24 fps for a filmic cadence, or progressive scan rather than interlaced, or a 35mm adaptor to decrease DOF, or smooth fluid-head tripod with sturdy legs, or great audio and lighting. But these are just old wives-tales, and do nothing to contribute to the "film look." A mattebox with French flag and barnyard doors is what gives film its distinctive look. A proper mattebox should be at least half the price of your camera, for professional results." lol

I will say it looks like there aren't that many good cheap solutions, because the ones that are cheap are just that... cheap. If the darn thing retains its value pretty well once you buy it, and it's a great matte box, I guess you can't really argue with that. *shrug*

[Charles Angus]

Just did some quick googling,

Sachtler 7+7 Studio II Head (my favourite) - $4200
Ronford Heavy Duty Tripod - $1950
Spreader - $289
Matte Box - $1500-$3000
Follow Focus - $1500-$3000

That's what I would consider acceptable for a camera in this weight range; you could get away with lighter gear, but I like the sturdy legs and the 7+7. Matte box and follow focus I would maybe go with a lighter model.

So add $9500-12500 plus tax/shipping on to your RED (unless you already own the gear...).

I suppose you could always rent your support and accessories, but isn't owning a RED about getting away from rentals?

There's been a couple of threads on support already, so this is a bit of flogging a dead horse, but my 2 cents - I've used the cheaper/lighter heads like the Cartoni Gamma on full-size Pana HD cameras/16SR's, and all I can think is "I wish I had a real head...".

Is there any interest in a total RED solution including support, matte box, follow focus? It's nice to have a single vendor, but on the other hand, heads are such a personal matter...