REDucation

[Cory Monty]

Sounds good. I might not be in the first wave, though.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

My only concern with this kind of project is that clients may think that without such a qualification one is not skilled in using Red cameras.

I completely agree with you, Paul. I'm worried that the next thing people are going to ask of REDucation is for some official certification to show that they have taken the course and are now "qualified". Clients will be looking for this too. Like most any industry, it's competitive out there and many people find it attractive to put any potential qualification on their resume, regardless of whether it means anything or not. Many clients / customers are looking for such details too. Any potential assurance that one contractor is better than another...

With that in mind, I hope the REDucation program offers no such certificates or anything that could be wrongly considered "extra qualification". In other words, I would hate for REDucation to turn into something on the level of CCNA or MCSE certifications or other manufacturer certifications like the bogus stuff by Panduit and Leviton (to use IT examples). I have to keep my CCNA and MCSE certifications current just so clients will think me and my company are "qualified". When in reality we often do installs that have nothing to do with Cisco or Microsoft products and practices and it doesn't matter that most entry-level network techs with a partially functional brain could pass those exams, provided they have read all the necessary propaganda.

Manufacturer certification is becoming more commonplace in a lot of technical areas and it's becoming a pointless financial drain, especially on smaller businesses who find increasing pressure to have these meaningless certifications.

Anyway, I've seen too much of this sort of thing. It often starts out as a simple training seminar and people suddenly want acknowledgement on both the business and client side.

So with that in mind, I guess I want to know how I can start running official REDucation courses myself? So when the day comes where I'm being asked if I have my REDucation diploma, I don't have to say "yes", I can say I'm the guy who issues them.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

easy solution, red doesnt give a certificate :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

easy solution, red doesnt give a certificate :)

I agree.

In some ways I feel that I'm over reacting... But perhaps not. And while I think the whole REDucation is a good idea, I just see it as something where it will become expected from a client point of view or possibly as false badge of superiority from the owner/op side of things. We have already seen a number of requests on these forums for "certified RED training programs"; I just don't want to see REDucation turn into such a thing where it becomes viewed as such a thing.

[Vince K]

Okay...I see what you guys are saying...but what about those of us that have 12+ years of cam assist experience in features, who understand the stress level, the importance of the shot, who get alot of work because of our skills, and all that other shit that goes with shooting SOMEONE ELSES project....pardon the Ukrainian, but we kinda want to f****n upgrade our skills too.:)
I'm an EXCELLENT 2nd. I can take a 35 mm cam apart and put it together with my eyes closed. I'm fast, knowledgeable, and get it done. Can I do it as well with RED? No. Do I want to? Of course, but there are steps I know that I have to go thru.

Because I don't own a RED camera does not mean I don't have a right to learn how this technology works.
I'm pretty sure I'm capable of working with a RED. I've proved it 7 times. It's not rocket science...to think so would be completely arrogant.
But I want to learn more.

It seems like some owners ( somewhat rightfully so) want to be the ones who are the genius's...and those of us who have been really working our asses off in the industry for years... those of us who actually GET IT and want a leg up...are on 2 opposite sides of the fence. Like WTF.
The course outline is self explanatory...the rest is up to the individual wanting to learn more.
If you can afford it...GIV'R - I know I'm going to.

All this meant in a nice way. :)

[Mike Seymour]

I agree Jeff, I fear that many of us who could probably teach the classes will end up having to go get "taught" just so we have a certificate of paper, what would be great is if they could just set up a test, because then many of us could just take that and not have to take off work to go sit in a classroom. I'm not against RED doing education, that's awesome, I just worry that it will turn like Jeff said, into a meaningless certificate.

I am not speaking for RED or speaking in an official capacity, but I have been involved with Ted a little on this and I think I can add some clarification.

A good model for this training was what happened with Steadicam a few years back. There was an intensive 'camp' where you could get away from work and really train with the gear.
This program by Red is not intended to be a way to limit Red Access and control the community with Certification. The idea is to provide the very best of immersive training with hands on time devoted to both shooting and posting/grading. The program will build out so this is just the first step but please dont think of it as a classroom bound textbook lecture situation followed by a 'required' exam and certification. The motivation is to educate and expand not certify and control. I really think this is an excellent program and over time you will come to see it as the great equalizer that I believe it is. A chance for anyone to get really good practical and creative training in an intensive environment. As with all things RED this is not yet a complete program rolling out immediately - so your input I am sure is very welcome, but if I can give you my take - this will grow into an invaluable creative program of real value to the industry.

Mike

Red Centre Podcast
www.fxguide.com

[Shane Betts]

I'm having enough trouble getting folk to take my writing and directing potential seriously because I have a head for tech things. Please don't give me a Red Diploma to force me into that box more. I just want the info to do my job better while I get my films up and provide me with some kind of employability if Spielberg doesn't call

[Raul Gonzo]

When can we expect the site to be updated with more info?

[Corey Culp]

I agree.

In some ways I feel that I'm over reacting... But perhaps not. And while I think the whole REDucation is a good idea, I just see it as something where it will become expected from a client point of view or possibly as false badge of superiority from the owner/op side of things. We have already seen a number of requests on these forums for "certified RED training programs"; I just don't want to see REDucation turn into such a thing where it becomes viewed as such a thing.

I don't think you're overreacting at all, Jeff. There are plenty of Avid rental houses that for years would only hire Avid techs with not just the ACSR certificate/training that Avid overcharges for, but it had to be current. And by "current", that's annually. (They've also raised the price considerably to $2750 for a 5-day class.)

Also, I surely hope that just because somebody went through the entire week of Red training, that they're capable of being a DIT, DP, etc. on a Red production. There are a bunch of GREAT Red-centric DPS, DITs, and such out there, I hope these clients don't just look at the certificate as a means to hire or not hire. If they do, they could end up with a a big ole' mess and such a distaste in their mouth, they won't want to shoot with Red again.

If I were to pretend that I have read ever post made on this board, and make a (somewhat) ignorant statement like "the only promise that Jim ever made, was expect change", these classes would be key for a lot of folks to make themselves current every year. (It sure would make more sense than Avid's annual approach, as their products don't change nearly as often as Red's.)

EDIT:

I am not speaking for RED or speaking in an official capacity, but I have been involved with Ted a little on this and I think I can add some clarification.

A good model for this training was what happened with Steadicam a few years back. There was an intensive 'camp' where you could get away from work and really train with the gear.
This program by Red is not intended to be a way to limit Red Access and control the community with Certification. The idea is to provide the very best of immersive training with hands on time devoted to both shooting and posting/grading. The program will build out so this is just the first step but please dont think of it as a classroom bound textbook lecture situation followed by a 'required' exam and certification. The motivation is to educate and expand not certify and control. I really think this is an excellent program and over time you will come to see it as the great equalizer that I believe it is. A chance for anyone to get really good practical and creative training in an intensive environment. As with all things RED this is not yet a complete program rolling out immediately - so your input I am sure is very welcome, but if I can give you my take - this will grow into an invaluable creative program of real value to the industry.

Mike

Red Centre Podcast
www.fxguide.com

Being a fxphd student, I can say I've learned a lot about Red through the variety of the courses that Mike and John provide, so I put a lot of stock in what they have to say. They (along with Torrey Loomis' enormous generosity sending out those DVDs full of R3D files last year) have helped me understand the Red post workflow via their tutorials and hands-on at home. I consider them totally invaluable.

After reading Mike's post (and affirming the ridiculousness of Avid/MS' approaches) I could only imagine how cool it's going to be to take these classes, and to be able to turn to an instructor when I'm stymied.

[Adam Glick]

Conferences/training sessions like this are valuable for many of the same reasons that events like NAB and SIGGRAPH are valuable -you will get concentrated access to the brightest and most knowledgeable minds in this industry as well as hand-on exposure to the related technologies.

A few days away from work and few thousand bucks may be a good chunk of time/cash for You. But consider the following questions:

Are You really serious about making RED part of your business strategy ?

Is your time perhaps too valuable to be spent fumbling around, sifting through raw data (some accurate, some way off the mark) on reduser.net?

Do you consider "networking" with like-minded professionals in the same line of work to be time well spent?

Do you have burning questions you need to have answered directly by authoritative sources?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is "yes" then maybe this is the type of investment in yourself and your company that you should seriously consider.