RED Audo - On Camera v 2 System

[Jon Frost]

I've been reading some of the latest posts about RED and its audio capabilities. As a sound recordist and studio owner... I would recommend that new owners of the RED ONE take the necessary time to read the manual and
order 4 Mini XLR - XLR adapters and 4 mini XLR cables from RED.com. Cost about $180.

Next pull out an available microphone (Dynamic or Phantom Powered Condenser) and connect it to one of the 4 audio inputs on the RED via the cables you purchased. Any microphone that has a sensitivity of -20 to -60 should work well with the RED. Using the menu turn on Phantom Power to the input you are connected to if you have a phantom powered condenser mic.

Next, speak in a normal voice and check the levels on your VF or external monitor. Don't go into the red... pun intended. Record about 30 seconds.

Playback the audio. Does it sound distorted? Then you need to adjust the Record levels a bit. if your audio is still distorted, then you will most likely want to run your mics through an outboard mixer like the Sound Devices 442. That way you can connect up to 4 mic/line sources and take the Direct Outs from the mixer into the RED. You will have much better mic preamps than the RED by a longshot. You will also have input and output limiters at your disposal. Remember to set the Audio Input(s) to Line In if you are using an outboard mixer.

I would NOT recommend trying to record with a camera mounted mic due to the fan noise... in fact you need to be about 6-8 ft. away to not record fan noise. However, you could try to blimp the camera, but watch out that you don't overheat the camera.

A bunch of forum folks have decided to go the 2 system audio route which will work just fine... as long as you have a Timecode capable audio recorder to use as the Master and Jam Sync the RED via a LEMO Timecode In/ Out cable. This is easily done with the System 7 recorders from Sound Devices. Don't forget to purchase a smart slate like the Denecke TS-C or their other smart slates and a LEMO to LEMO timcode cable... RED.com sells a 10' cable.

2 system audio is great as long as you have a sound recordist, smart slate and someone to clap for you and undertand the finer points of Digital Audio and Timecode. It doesn't have to slow down production that much. The more organized your crew is, the better. Using a timecode slate can speed things up in post in FCP or AVID.

You can still record usable audio direct to the RED... Just take the time to read the manual and experiment before you are actually into production. RED.com tech support is also available to help you out with settings and questions.

If all else fails... get in touch with a sound recordist who can possibly help you out before or during production.

Best of luck to all... Awesome audio is right at your fingertips!

[Alexander Alexandrov]

I'm new to RED and looking to fully understand sound recording for it and decide on the kit.

as I see it, there are two (two and a half:) ) ways to go:

- RED one has 4 inputs. I can use an outboard mixer like the Sound Devices 442 and record 4 channels into RED. thinking a bit fwd and if red is to be say steadicam mounted - these cables running into the camera will be a limitation.

- use a recorder, something like one of sound devices pro digital recorders. if the recorder is not TC capable, perhaps plug some mic into red to sync easier to a better quality sound on the recorder.


- use a TC capable recorder. never worked with this. can someone clarify how this part works? meaning, is there a TC sync cable still plugged in to the camera&recorder or slate at any given time?

any other simpler/cheaper solutions that can still give good quality results?

[Raul Gonzo]

I would NOT recommend trying to record with a camera mounted mic due to the fan noise... in fact you need to be about 6-8 ft. away to not record fan noise.

The fan shuts off when you start recording 8)

[Jon Frost]

Sound Devices makes the 702T, 744T and 788T Timecode Capable Digital Recorders.

You can record 2-system audio with any of these recorders... you need a LEMO to LEMO cable (red One.com makes a 10' cable) to Jam Sync from the Recorder to the RED One. Actually, you can Jame Sync either direction Recorder to Camera or vice versa.

2-system audio would also require the use of a smart slate like the Denecke TS-C or other smart slate whcih can be jam synced to the recorder...

If you are going to be Steadicam mounted, then I would definitely recommend 2 system audio...

On the RED One... take the time to set up the audio parameters in the Menu. Then take the time to practice with either a microphone or a mic running through a mixer to obtain the best quality signal. The use of a mixer affords you the ability to Limit/Compress a mic signal before hitting the RED. Try to set the your signal chain as close to -12dB to -20dB so you have room for finessing the volume in Post.

Order (4) of the mini-XLR to XLR-F adapter cables so you can work with regular XLR connectors whether you are running a microphone or a line level out of mixer into the RED... You can also order adapter cables from Sound Devices... order (2 pair - XL-2F). These cables are 25" long.

Good luck and I'm happy to try to answer your questions.

Jon

[M Most]

2-system audio would also require the use of a smart slate like the Denecke TS-C or other smart slate whcih can be jam synced to the recorder...

Not really. If you're using common time codes, you don't need a slate at all, time code or otherwise. If you do use a slate - and I would strongly advise that - any simple slate with sticks will do. Synching sound using sticks in digital editing systems takes very, very little time, and in the end is more reliable in terms of dead sync than any time code guided system.

The primary need for time code slates today is for things like playback time code on music videos - or, in some cases, if you're synching dailies in a post facility that is set up to expect it.

[Alexander Alexandrov]

so 702T and RED one with TC sync cable will do just fine?
no slate is necessary to sync these up perfectly?

as i understand correctly: 702T and RED are synced once via that cable and then the cable can be disconnected?

thx

[M Most]

so 702T and RED one with TC sync cable will do just fine?
no slate is necessary to sync these up perfectly?

If the time codes are the same on both picture and sound then no, you don't need a slate. But I would strongly encourage you to slate each shot and bang sticks anyway, both to have some visual indication of what the shot is, and to confirm sync.

[Alexander Alexandrov]

Yup, and for that a simple slate will do just fine

[Alexander Alexandrov]

i'm getting a SD 702t recorder
is it fair to say that a mixer like SD 442 is a luxury to add?
i mean 702t has 2 inputs (most i'd need) and gain controls

[Shane Kelly]

Jon,
Is there a reason that Red uses mini xlr to mini xlr? Why not mini to normal size xlr? Just asking because I have a locationsound cable from before my audio upgrade and would like to use it.
Thanks,
Shane.