Building the Ideal Studio for RED

[marco somaini]

Hi All

I am just trying to get a grip on what we all will need to edit the files we are getting from the RED in a professional matter. Here is what I got so far:

G5, top of the line with 16GB of RAM
Kona 3 card to capture

now here is where I need your help. I am looking on the RED website and found the G-Speed XL. Looks great, but if I get a 12TB storage solution, how much footage can I actually but on there and how easy can I edit the 4k, 2k images on that monster? I tried to follow the math on another thread, but is that raid going to be fast enough?

Thanks for all your help and just add other things you would recommend to have. I am building a brand new place for a 3 RED camera setup and now is the time for me to find the $$ to do it all. So hit me with all the bad news on where my money needs or should be going.

Marco

[Mike 50]

Kona cards only capture 2K.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think dual-link SDI can do 4K 4:4:4, but anyway I don't think KONA supports that - perhaps the Bluefish cards (I don't think they support Mac though). Graeme said that they were using the Kona3 to output 2K and it worked beautifully, so I definitely see a Kona card as a must if you'll be outputting via SDI to a deck of some kind.

Recording from the camera direct to RED-RAID or to a competent workstation via the optical/RAW port would be the way to go. But I guess we're all just sitting around waiting for those details on how it should all ideally work. As for system power, if you don't already own a system, don't go buy one until your RED is about to ship. Expect 8-core Mac Pro systems and other goodies about NAB time (and hopefully RED shipping time).

I'm planning to buy a new system (or two) to go along with RED. I'm hoping for 8-core 2.66GHz+ Mac Pro w/12~16GB RAM. Already running G5 quads here w/8GB and work just fine for HD.

For now though, I think it would be foolish to buy anything before NAB in April and before the RED One starts shipping.

[MikeCurtis]

A few comments -

dual link HD-SDI can do 10b444 1920x1080 on Kona3 & BMD higher end stuff.

The spec allows for 2048x1080 in at least 10 if not 12 bit (can't remember off top of head, somebody correct me if they know).

For Sony's 4K projector, they use four dual link pairs - the image is broken into quadrants, each with its own dual link HD-SDI 4:4:4 feed.

As for 16GB G5 - 4GB is most Final Cut Pro can recognize, and only 2.5 GB is available for projects, as 1.5GB is saved for internal FCP stuff. So 5-8 GB is PLENTY to leave for room for other apps, unless you want monster Motion/Shake/AE/DVD Studio Pro available simultaneously.

As for G5, Mac Pro!!! Redcine is Intel Mac only, don't forget. 8 core Macs are expected soon, that's what I'm holding out for.

-mike

[Rob Lohman]

As Mike indicated REDCINE won't run on the G5, it only supports Intel processors.

I would wait buying any equipment until much closer to release. Depending on where you are in the RED ONE queue you might want to see how machines / workflows work for the people before you.

Most people will probably shoot in REDCODE. For 4K at 30 fps it should run around 30 MB/s.

In editing it's important to have a fast and responsive system. If you're going to shoot 4K it might be a good idea to work with lower resolution offline proxies and then conform the online.

We don't have final numbers on performance etc. yet.

[dwinter]

Unless I'm mistaken, you should still be able to edit on a G5 with the Red Codec, but not use the utility Redcine.

If you don't plan to use Red's compression (30MBs) why do 4K? Go the 2k route and upgrade your hardware when it is economically feasible.

~D

[Stephen Williams]

Unless I'm mistaken, you should still be able to edit on a G5 with the Red Codec, but not use the utility Redcine.

If you don't plan to use Red's compression (30MBs) why do 4K? Go the 2k route and upgrade your hardware when it is economically feasible.

~D

Hi,

Perhaps I don't understand, uncompressed 2k needs way more mower than redcode 4K

Stephen

[marco somaini]

I am certainly holding off on buying anything. And yes, we are currently working on a quad as well and it works great with HD. I am more concerned about extra stuff I might forget. Such as a good monitor to view the feed you are editing. I expect Kona to get something going for red as well by NAB as well as RAID systems that will support the data we need for a decent price. But how do you guys preview your footage while editing. I mean just in the FCP interface, that sucks and the computer monitors are ok, but not nearly as good as they should be. Also, if I am on location, how do we watch footage there? Any recommendations on screen for locations that work with the red and I can see what the camera sees?

thanks for all your help and I am 671, so i am not sure how quickly they get released, but I might be one of the first that needs to get going on upgrading my editing suite.

Marco

[Antoine Baumann]

Hi Maro,

I would say that with a G-Speed XL with 12TB (16x 750MB) in a raid 6 config, you would get around 10TB of storage place.
How much footage, will depend on what codec you use. Let say you shoot 4k redcode raw, this will take around 100GB/hour (@ 24 fps), so let say you shoot 40 hours, you get 4TB. Then you may want to process them in redcine, let say you go for 2k 12 bit uncompressed, it would be around 250MB/sec (@ 24 fps) so for 40 hours it would take 36 TB to store that. (if I didn't make mistakes :-)
Therefore, the only way might be to go compressed, choosing the format that feets your workflow. Redcode seems promising to me, so I would love to stick to it all the way of the postproduction. And I am not only planning on doing editing job, but also compositing and color grading. If you go 2k 12 bit redcode rgb, the footage processed should take around the same as the 4k raw 10 bit log, so the 40 hours will add an other 4TB, to the previous 4TB. You still have around 2TB left. Not much in my mind, thinking to all 3D work, render test of composit work and 3D work, matte paintings and all the visual elements that will contribue to the final image.

About the speed of those G-Speed XL, I do not know, never had one :-) But if Ted if saying that they use it at red office, it should be fine. If you really worry, have a look on raid 60 system, they should outperform the raid 6 in reading, but not sure you will find something on OSX, or look for system that use faster Hard disk (like 15'000 rpm).

About monitor, most of the people here in switzerland and france, that I have talked to, like to grade on big Sony BVM, lcd is not yet popular. But I am not sure, if a "e-cinema" monitor wouldn't be as accurate? What do you think?

Like everyone said, buying gears for red before NAB, might be foolish.
As a lot of people, I am impatient to know what Apple will do with Final Touch, and other new softwares acquisition. Also as Premiere is coming back to Apple OS, it will add some competition. I am waiting to define my workflow (NAB will be the time for it) and then buy the tools that will fit to each other.

antoine.