Upgrade Modules only for Epic-X? Why?

[Mark B.]

Why is it that upgrading to the Epic-X will get us the CF/Battery/IO modules, but not if we upgrade to one of the other Epic cameras?

Red seems to want us to buy the cheaper camera. But why?

The most obvious hypothesis is that Red wants people to buy the EpicX, and then also buy the FF35. But people who can afford to go that route would probably go that route regardless of the free modules. Their demographic has money or constant camera work, and they simply want the latest and greatest camera whatever the cost. The rest of us can only afford to purchase one camera, one time, rather than buying and selling and buying again (resale on Epic-X will incur a financial hit for most).

Is Red hoping that we'll skip the EpicX and go straight to FF35, so that they don't have to pay out the extra modules to as many people? That would seem very unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibilities.

I hope Red will improve their upgrade policy, to give the free modules to any of the Epic upgrades, not just Epic-X.

[Raul Gonzo]

The modules given with Epic X is a gift... Most likely RED went with the Epic X because that will be the first Epic out. If you are in a financial situation where you can buy a Red and then afford to do the upgrade, then most likely you could sell your Epic X and then pay the difference to buy an Epic FF35 and then use the same modules.
Obviously everyone is different, but I would think this can apply to most people...

[Meryem Ersoz]

Red seems to want us to buy the cheaper camera. But why?

You need to shift your perception, that is all. They don't want you to buy a cheaper camera, they want their RED ONE customers to be able to have a reasonable upgrade path, without having to re-purchase the basic devices that will go into a working EPIC. Beyond that reasonable upgrade path, you will have to pay for all the goodies. Innovation has a cost.

[Joseph S.]

99% of any other companies don't let you exchange what you bought, used, used, and used again, and then let you get FULL credit, for an almost unlimited time to an upgraded future product. You buy a 2007 car. Go back to them in 2010 and they give you full credit on it for a new model. Unheard of.

I'm not being a smart-ass, just saying :)

[Andrew Walker]

Personally I would rather see Red skip Epic-X and just go straight for the FF35. But that's just me...or maybe not. I don't mind waiting the extra time for the FF35 Epic. I just see the advantages of the FF35 Monstro sensor to far out weigh the Mysterium-X sensor, higher dynamic range and higher resolution. Not to mention higher fps, which I'm really looking forward to. Plus if people just want to shoot 5K with their RPPs they can with just a change in the project menu. The FF35 even minus the extra modules seems like a way better buy as it can be both a 4K, 5K and 6K DSMC camera.

I also think its going to be a little hard to sell the 5K Epic brain when the 6K FF35 Epic is out because once everyone sees how badass it is to shoot in FF35 6K they are going to want that. Not to mention producers, directors and stock footage houses. FF35 is going to be the future.

[Dominic Jones]

Whilst I would also prefer to get an Epic FF35 with all the free doo-dads, that's not really playing fair.

Here's the thing:

The reason why the deal applies to the Epic-X only is that it is, in essence, a replacement for the Red One body in DSMC form-factor - same (pretty much) size sensor, similar res, and a fully working body with control, CF card module, etc. Essentially it's a thanks to those who bought into the R1 system, and a delivery on their promise of not allowing the kit to become obsolete. It's also pretty much unprecedented as far as I know...

As regards selling Epic-X brains, I'm not so sure they will be difficult to shift - Andrew, you're thinking only from the perspective of someone buying into the system and going for the best option available. But what DSMC offers is modularity and therefore modular upgrading... So, what about all of the 2/3" (and S35, for that matter) Scarlet users out there, who might very well be tempted to buy a cheaper second-hand Epic brain, keep all their existing aks and suddenly have an Epic rig for cheap?

I guess we'll see, but I would be moderately surprised if it was difficult to shift an Epic-X brain 12 months after their release...

One thing's for sure - it's gonna be a gamble, this one, either way!!
Dom.

[Jeff Brown]

The other thing to factor in is timescale.

Certainly the Epic FF35 will be better in terms of Dynamic range/sensor size etc but you'll be waiting another year for it.

For those who work day in day out with cameras making money on paying jobs that's a long time. I'll be going Epic X and it will pay for itself and then some by the time I buy a FF35 brain.

The old adage about technology applies. If you need it now buy it now - if you don't dont. There will always be something better a year from now.

Jeff Brown

[Dominic Jones]

I'm not convinced the Epic FF35 will be a year behind the Epic-X, personally. My money's on more like 6 months...

But still, your point stands - for me, given that I'm assuming R1 rental prices will take a moderately hefty dive on release of the Epic-X and that my kit goes out pretty regularly, I think the gamble that the Epic-X will make enough money to cover the loss I make selling it on 6 months down the line in that time will just about pay off - that is also assuming that Andrew is wrong about the re-sale price of an Epic-X brain post-FF35 release, of course.

Like I say, it's a gamble either way...
Dom.

[Andrew Walker]

I'm not convinced the Epic FF35 will be a year behind the Epic-X, personally. My money's on more like 6 months...

But still, your point stands - for me, given that I'm assuming R1 rental prices will take a moderately hefty dive on release of the Epic-X and that my kit goes out pretty regularly, I think the gamble that the Epic-X will make enough money to cover the loss I make selling it on 6 months down the line in that time will just about pay off - that is also assuming that Andrew is wrong about the re-sale price of an Epic-X brain post-FF35 release, of course.

Like I say, it's a gamble either way...
Dom.

Oh, I could very well be wrong about the whole Epic-X thing. It might not be hard to sell after the FF35 Epic comes out. But with all the added benefits that the FF35 Epic seems to offer it might be a little tough. We'll just have to see.

Of course I'm speaking more as a shooter than a camera supplier. So I want the best possible camera to fit my shooting and for me that would be the FF35 Epic.

[Dominic Jones]

Absolutely agree Andrew, and I'm in very much the same boat as you - there's no doubt that I'll get the FF35, the question is whether to jump for the Epic-X in the meantime.

...And I could very well be wrong about resale value too! That's the tough bit - but realistically, with, say, 6-9 months of usage out of the X, plus the additional free modules into the bargain, I think it's looking like a good bet to go FF via the X...

Might yet change my mind again, though! :)

Cheers,
Dom.