Audio Feature / Specification Request

[Stuart English]

If its not already done why not create a list of the top issues users would like to see from scarlet/epic audio may help lock down those features that professional users need.

Good idea.

Time to start a new thread as we haven't had too many responses to the "audio expectations" request yet....

And I think it would also be useful to separate those into "soft" and "hard" categories as follows -


Soft would be comments like -

"easy to use", "conforms to expectations", "doesn't add color", "shouldn't sound quiet in FCP", "use full size XLRs" etc


Hard would be specifications like -

"I need xx dB of headroom above what I'd set at peak operating level", "I need a minimum of xx dB s/n", I need xx mA at xx V to power my xx microphone" "the max RMS voltage the audio section should accepts should be xx V RMS" etc


p.s. I'll set up a new thread to discuss any points raised, let's use this one as a raw capture of your input...

[Joel Kaye]

Soft comments -

1) a physical knob to adjust gain on each channel. 4 channels = 4 knobs. (just has to happen). Having the mic vs. line level and phantom power be physical switches would be nice too.

2) Ability to route 1 XLR input to 2 or more channels with each of those channels set at different gain levels. One physical input routing to 4 tracks all recording different gain levels pretty much eliminates the need for a mixer in fast moving situations where sound could range from a whisper to a scream. (Reality TV, Indie Horror movie, street interviews etc.)

3) The best preamps you can get... but suggestion 2 above helps with this tremendously because perfectly set gain boosts your sound quality when using lesser pre's. In camera the pre is never going to be like a $2000 studio preamp.

4) I need to be able to see the levels when I'm changing gain. Tossing some leds or lcd's on the side of the camera just for audio levels would be nice. Anyone near the camera could look over and monitor gain levels.

5) I'd like to see the orientation of the XLR inputs be such that the plugs hang straight down as opposed to sideways off the camera like RED has currently. I'm curious if others think that would be better or worse and why.

[RayFrisby]

Hard Comments:
I am not a sound guy but I agree with Joel's suggestions. Also a simple way to automatic sync timecode when connected to an external recorder.
I also think hard switches are the logical choice rather than menu based control for ease of use. The downward facing xlr's seems like an interesting idea, sound guys may differ.
I think this sound module would be an interesting direction for Red to take and a somewhat logical one. As it allows users to use a dual recording system and also offers a quality run and gun audio option.
My 2 cents

[ericyoung]

I've already suggested Red solicit "hard" interface requirements input from Sound Devices, but they should also ask other industry audio companies for suggestions. Talking to SMPTE and other international bodies would also be a good idea, but answers will probably come quicker from audio manufacturers.

[ericyoung]

Joel's suggestions are all good. This is one of the areas where Red should really take the best features from the old guard like Sony, Panasonic et al, and make them even better.

Hard audio controls exist on even the lowliest semi-pro cameras.

I'd think that downward facing XLR inputs would be awkward to plug up and may well foul on tripod plates and other grip equipment, but staggered full size XLR sockets on the side allowing dense packing of right angle Neutrik type XLRs with cables hanging straight down would go some way to a compact form factor and tidy cables.

[Rob Castiglione]

A partnership between Red and Sound Devices would be a marriage made in heaven.

But if that is fantasy, then what Joel says. It is imperative to have more immediate access to audio gain and also monitoring. Also a good quality headphone output is essential.

One possibility I suppose is to offer two separate and differently priced audio modules - the standard and the deluxe model with the latter offering just the best quality components and functionality?

[Hans von Sonntag]

Soft comments -

1) a physical knob to adjust gain on each channel. 4 channels = 4 knobs. (just has to happen). Having the mic vs. line level and phantom power be physical switches would be nice too.

2) Ability to route 1 XLR input to 2 or more channels with each of those channels set at different gain levels. One physical input routing to 4 tracks all recording different gain levels pretty much eliminates the need for a mixer in fast moving situations where sound could range from a whisper to a scream. (Reality TV, Indie Horror movie, street interviews etc.)

3) The best preamps you can get... but suggestion 2 above helps with this tremendously because perfectly set gain boosts your sound quality when using lesser pre's. In camera the pre is never going to be like a $2000 studio preamp.

4) I need to be able to see the levels when I'm changing gain. Tossing some leds or lcd's on the side of the camera just for audio levels would be nice. Anyone near the camera could look over and monitor gain levels.

5) I'd like to see the orientation of the XLR inputs be such that the plugs hang straight down as opposed to sideways off the camera like RED has currently. I'm curious if others think that would be better or worse and why.

You are essentially talking about the sound section of an ENG camcorder. There's nothing bad with this, on the contary. There are many reasons why they are build like this. Perhaps Red could build a sound module for the DMSC that is excatly this: The sound section of an ENG camcorder including a compartment for a remote sound reciever.

For the RedOne this is phyhsically impossible.

Hans

[mike filippov]

This may seem like an odd place to post this, but I would love to see a simple timecode input upon the brain itself. No generator required, just a way to timestamp every clip. With that one could sync multiple cameras as well as a camera with sound without the need for an entire sound module...

That being said, if I was building a sound module from scratch I would surely look under the hood of eveything Nagra has put out. In my opinion they're sound is unrivaled with respect to A to D's that can take filming conditions, and their amplifiers are crystal clear.

[ericyoung]

...a good quality headphone output is essential.

One possibility I suppose is to offer two separate and differently priced audio modules - the standard and the deluxe model with the latter offering just the best quality components and functionality?

It'd be good to have a full size 1/4" headphone socket. The tiny one on the Red One is OK for iPods and stuff, but far too fragile for pro use really.

Like the two priced audio idea.

[James Brundige]

1. Pots and visible meters.

2. Hardware switch for mic/line.

3. I would like to see it calibrated to +4dBu, with 18dB of headroom above that level.
That way, normal pro mixers and preamps can feed optimal levels.

4. Mic input should feature phantom power that functions with most 48v mics.

5. Really good A/D converters

Clearly normal XLR inputs are more universal, but if you run out of room, the minis can work.

Recorded levels should translate directly (the same level dBFS) to edit systems. I don't know if this is the recording algorithm or Red Alert that accomplishes this.

As Hans pointed out, this is basically the input section of any camcorder. Should be quite easy, with lots of tried and true models to follow.