Epic Closeups...

[Michael Hastings]

It also seems like OVF might be important to the success of the system for DSMC. I imagine filmmakers are much more comfortable with EVFs and off-camera monitoring than still photographers would be. If Canon took the OVF off the 1Ds, wouldn't that be enough reason for a lot of Canon photographers to switch to Nikon? And yet the current plans for Scarlet and Epic FF are aimed at a segment of the still market, and despite the range of non-OVF options that go along with them, I think the lack of an OVF would be a pretty big barrier to a lot of still photographers, particularly those that don't want a big monitor attached to their camera.

So still photographers would pay 20 grand for an optical viewfinder?

I don't think so.

These are the reasons that the DSMC concept is probably NOT that viable for large numbers of photographers that do primarily stills. A 5d or 7D user doesn't give up anything to have a bonus video camera also. For stills, they still have their exact same setup: i.e. OVF/mirror system; 18 or 21 or whatever megapixel stills; uncompressed raw files; very high powered electronic flash that works on batteries or standard wall power; etc.

They lose the OVF for video but they have probably never operated a motion picture camera that wasn't EVF based - i.e. some form of video camera.

Yet to do a shoot on a DSMC Epic or Scarlet, or REDONE, particularly when extracting stills from the movie, you lose all of that: no OVF, lower MP, compressed files; requires high powered (daylight preferred) continuous lighting; etc.

Doing a studio magazine shoot or something similar with a REDONE/Epic is a very cool concept that has its place, but I think in the long run it will be the exception rather than the norm if the main interest is stills. There still is too much size difference - and more importantly the huge difference in the lenses, lighting, setup, and other production accoutrements that go along with a motion shoot - to make it a total game changer.

I think it is much more likely that 95% of epic owners (and even non-owner users like David Mullen) will have an $1800 Canon 7D or equivalent in their toolkit than that even 50% of pro still shooters will have a full fledged DSMC like a $3000 to $50000 Epic/Scarlet.

Again, nothing wrong with that - "horses for courses". I like the fact that Epic/Scarlet CAN do it all, but it doesn't mean it will be the BEST tool for the job.

[Patrick Tresch]

Will the OVD (spinning mirror) have any impact on picture quality (read out time /motion blur...) ?

If yes, it will have a market (the D21 argument Emmanuel developped).

IMHO

Patrick

[Lee Saxon]

It also seems like OVF might be important to the success of the system for DSMC. I imagine filmmakers are much more comfortable with EVFs and off-camera monitoring than still photographers would be. If Canon took the OVF off the 1Ds, wouldn't that be enough reason for a lot of Canon photographers to switch to Nikon? And yet the current plans for Scarlet and Epic FF are aimed at a segment of the still market, and despite the range of non-OVF options that go along with them, I think the lack of an OVF would be a pretty big barrier to a lot of still photographers, particularly those that don't want a big monitor attached to their camera.

Yeah, even if you don't decide to go ahead with the $20k motion OVF, a stills-only one (hopefully costing much less) would I think still be a big draw for that market.

I for example am very anxious to buy a Scarlet for motion work but the lack of a real viewfinder (and yes, for still photographers, OVFs are 'real' viewfinders and EVFs, monitors, and even rangefinders are 'fake' viewfinders! sorry!) is one of the biggest reasons I will continue to also own a Nikon DSLR.

[Imran Farouk]

Lower MP maybe one thing but in the long run when the monstro sensors come out I think losing MP won't be an issue as I think 600+ MP is kinda crazy...

Overall though the EPIC/Scarlet systems are to fullfill both markets, thats what is said, it doesn't do one thing good and the other brilliant its suppose to go all out, guns blazing...if that is true in reality is something that'll need to be tested but both are coming out RAW (or a compression suited to deliver RAW, R3DCode).

Though I think everyone could argue that theres no such thing as 'the best tool for the job on every job'. There is however, the most likely tool and of course the potential for RED to push to be that tool on every job, only time will tell though...

Right now, prep your wallets, give out your ideas on the EPIC/Scarlet system...
Never know whats around the corner after they've OK'd the ASIC

[Quentin Brown]

Correct Häakon. This was more about Scarlet. I' didn't realise that this was in a Red One forum thread as I linked to it from elsewhere.

My questions to do with ergonomics, auto features and audio still stand though, since the system is modular, but I guess these are more concerns for Scarlet customers with EFP intentions than the readers of this forum who are most likely Cinematographers working with very different priorities and requirements.

I think if the ergonomics, auto features and audio can be make to work right the Scarlet stands to gain a huge amount of the Broadcast market for work that has some post production time (and even that that doesnt with the REDrocket though it would be a bit overkill for News work). Projected pricing for the 2/3" Scarlets make them cheaper than any other current Pro/ Semi Pro HD cameras with 2/3" chips on the market for the Broadcast industry and they can slay them for framerates and resolution plus more besides. I have no idea how many cams are out there in the broadcast industry but I reckon many more than RED can sell to the film industry as long as the ergonomics, auto features and audio is right and the word gets out. As they are a company that listen I am pretty hopeful they will get all this down.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Whats an OVF??!

Just Kidding.. but seriously, it has been since forever that I have not used or come across any one that has been using a camera with one, that I even completely forgot it actually existed and what it was there for a moment.

NO, No way would I want ever go back to one, the EVF on the R1 is just an incredible proof of how much better an EVF is vs. a OVF, and I know that they might be specific uses for it, but I can't put a single one on the list of a must have, some of its uses and benefits are in deed, great ones, and not only by its optical characteristics, but per example as David has already mentioned, the fact of been able to play around with your scenes and shots framing with the camera turned off, replacing the need for a Director's Viewfinder, even so only acceptable in some occasions, as some times it is easier and faster to use a DVF then the actual camera set up, avoiding over heating issues when unnecessary as well as off course as important saving battery, but still none of this are worth giving up the benefits of the EVF and forging out 20K which could be put in to much better use in to a set of RPP's.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Here's some pics...



The new tiny EVF...

The new tactile monitor...

The battery module...

That's Jarred... :)

And that's me with you know who... :)

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

The new tiny EVF...


And that's me with you know who... :)

Thanks for the photos Lewis!
Nice new small monitor, that's the one I'll use on my fixed Scarlet... (tears eyes)

You're looking just like a french action-film director.
Good luck on your project!

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Thanks for the photos Lewis!
Nice new small monitor, that's the one I'll use on my fixed Scarlet... (tears eyes)

You're looking just like a french action-film director.
Good luck on your project!

Thanks! Will get that one too (7" hopefully, that's the 5")...
Will try and be as good a director as I look then...
Stay tuned...

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks! Will get that one too (7" hopefully, that's the 5")...
Will try and be as good a director as I look then...
Stay tuned...

thanks for posting! so you got to hold it!!!!!

how was the weight?