editing software for s3D

[istvanttt]

I don't know if there was already somewhere a discussion on what kind of editing tools everybody uses for s3D? If Quantal is not installed in somebodies basement then what else:))?

Also what are the criterias most of us put on a s3D editing sw? I personally consider the geometrical corrections as the main issues. Most of the time when I go to see a presentation I get the unified stereo-color-corretions as main advanteges presented.

I'm not so sure if this is the right way. I think that my eyes can handle slightly colordifferences better then geometrical inaccurities. Actually I think a given point in the space sends different colorreflections to my right and left eyes.

But back to the questions, what software are we using for s3D editing?

[M Most]

I don't know if there was already somewhere a discussion on what kind of editing tools everybody uses for s3D? If Quantal is not installed in somebodies basement then what else:))?

Editing or finishing? They're two different things.

[istvanttt]

agree with your note:))
My question was regarding: prepareing material, editing, decide which cuts work together, put the story together

[M Most]

agree with your note:))
My question was regarding: prepareing material, editing, decide which cuts work together, put the story together

You're talking about creative editing. The most complete current approach to this is contained in Avid Media Composer. Rather than go through the feature set and associated tools here, I would suggest you visit Avid.com, go through the materials there, then come back and ask questions.

[Jürgen Hansen]

If you are Macintosh based, try the demo versions of Stereo3D Toolbox and cineform's neo3d. That should help you already a lot.

[Frank Jonen]

Another point is that a shot can work or not in a sequence depending on the convergence you set, so a tool that lets you play with the convergence and zero Z will also help.

[istvanttt]

...
..... Rather than go through the feature set and associated tools here, I would suggest you visit Avid.com, go through the materials there, then come back and ask questions.

Thanks for being so nice to tell me the way I have to go before putting here questions.

Concerning Avid, well I followed the specifications of the development since they anounced it the first time. At that time there where fixed on the Top/bottom squeezed format and I lost further interest. Before answering I tried quickly to get the last specifications of the features they offer for s3D works but to my shame I could find them on their web-side

Anyway, I started the thread not so much because I needed help, but because I thought it could be of general interest to read what others do.
Have a nice weekend
Istvan

[istvanttt]

If you are Macintosh based, try the demo versions of Stereo3D Toolbox and cineform's neo3d. That should help you already a lot.

Thanks Juergen, well I have already 2 Stereo3Dtoolbox licenses installed. I think it is a very useful and exciting tool and worth the money. I'm still struggeling with it when I use unsqueezed side-by-side 1080p clips but hope to resolve it with the 4800 board.

Neo3D I saw during the NAB and immediatley tried the demo-version. Unfortunatley at that time they used only squeezed side-by-side formats and also the software had no significante geometrical correction tools avaible. As far as it is a sw which updates frequently it may have resoleved meanwhile those issues. I would be happy to hear it. What I also don't like in Neo3D is that it has a sw-protectiuon and no dongle. So if I travel I would have to carry all the time my computer with me.
Istvan

[M Most]

Thanks for being so nice to tell me the way I have to go before putting here questions.

I don't know why you need to jump all over me for simply offering an answer to the question you asked. There's no point trying to give a full explanation of something if it's already available in a better form elsewhere. That's why I suggested going to their website. You didn't mention anything about prior experience, and you didn't mention anything about Avid or anyone else. This is an Internet forum, there's absolutely no way for me or anyone else to magically guess your level of experience. And from your subsequent posts, it's clear that you're not looking for offline tools, but for finishing tools. So my further suggestion would be to look at Iridas' Frame Cycler DI and Speedgrade DI tools, which have most of what you're asking for. If you're trying to do "geometric" transformations - which I would interpret as things like keystone correction - you're not going to find that in lower priced editing tools, you'll likely need to look at either compositing tools (Nuke is good for this, as it has explicit stereoscopic support) or much higher end systems like Resolve and Pablo.

You asked what people are using for stereoscopic editing (NOT finishing). I live in Los Angeles, and many of the projects being done here are using Avid Media Composer for this, especially for longform projects - it's one of the reasons they put in the 3D tools in the first place. If you don't agree with that approach, that's fine. But all I was doing was answering the question you asked.

[istvanttt]

I don't know why you need to jump all over me for simply offering an answer to the question you asked. There's no point trying to give a full explanation of something if it's already available in a better form elsewhere. That's why I suggested going to their website. You didn't mention anything about prior experience, and you didn't mention anything about Avid or anyone else. This is an Internet forum, there's absolutely no way for me or anyone else to magically guess your level of experience. And from your subsequent posts, it's clear that you're not looking for offline tools, but for finishing tools. So my further suggestion would be to look at Iridas' Frame Cycler DI and Speedgrade DI tools, which have most of what you're asking for. If you're trying to do "geometric" transformations - which I would interpret as things like keystone correction - you're not going to find that in lower priced editing tools, you'll likely need to look at either compositing tools (Nuke is good for this, as it has explicit stereoscopic support) or much higher end systems like Resolve and Pablo.

You asked what people are using for stereoscopic editing (NOT finishing). I live in Los Angeles, and many of the projects being done here are using Avid Media Composer for this, especially for longform projects - it's one of the reasons they put in the 3D tools in the first place. If you don't agree with that approach, that's fine. But all I was doing was answering the question you asked.

Most, you have more then 1500 posts in this forum(compared to my 150), so you helped to keep this forum alive and in high value and I will for sure not start to discuss with you on the way how to answer somebodies post. Therefore if you feel that I "jumped all over you" then I'm sorry and want honestley to appologies for that!

I proposed originally an issue to share with others: what kind of stereoscopic editing tools are used mostley here in this forum. I didn't ask what kind of software should I buy.

Editing-finishing
Well, where starts editing, specially on a low-budget project? Allow me to recall the traditional work-flow: shooting->telecining->primary colorcorrection-> preselecting of the valid clips->editing. Is the primary colorcorrection part of the editing? I think yes. Does it have anything to do with finishing? I think no.

Can s3D footage be worked on in the same way? I think no, because to be able to choose the usable clips you have to pass in the most cases the clips throu geometrical corrections first (rem: we talk about low-budget). Indeed to avoid keystone problems most people shoot parallel (me too). If you don't take the time to adjust first the correct parallax and define a provisory virtual screen position you cannot see and choose. Is this process part of editing? I think yes. Is this process part of finishing? I think absolutley not.

You mention Nuke, a wonderful program for composing. Is composing part of editing? I think it dipends on the project. If you create a virtually new world, then its may be closer to shooting then to editing. If its used to correct footage then its probably indeed part of the editing process. But I will not discuss this.

The Foundery created a plug-in to Nuke, Ocula for s3D work. Again a wonderful product, cost more then twice then Nuke itself. Its very much integrated into the Nuke workflow logic of a tipical composer appication.

Lets take the case of a footage where during shooting it seemed that 25cm interocular distance would be the best to avoid cardboard characters in the background. During the preparation of the clips we see in the editingroom that the forground character has now too much hyperstereo, know maybe better as Liliput effect. To cut this scene to a take where the interocular distance was just 6.5 cm could be in a s3D picture sometimes ridicolous. With Ocula we can adjust the interocular distance in post and riduce the Liliput effect. Is this now composing, editing or finishing? I hope I'm not alone, but I consider this part of the editing process.

2 years ago during a SPIE conference in San Josè I heared the first time the term Depth Cueing. Mr Feldman from in-Three showed an example how via software there is the possibility to change the distance between characters/objects in a s3D footage. It can change totally the emotional impact of a scene. Again, is this part of editing? Personally I'm positive that editing a s3D movie in the future will indeed include all kind of Depth Cueing work to tell the story. (BTW, if I recall well also The Foundary is working on someting similar for Ocula)

OK, the last examples where tools on the highest level of the stae of art and invitations for the future. But what exist on the lower level? Tools for x, y parallaxe corrections with automatic reframing, single camera rotation problems, keystone corrections, methods to controll distortions by substracting images ans so on? Well, those of us who started with s3D before the current Holywood hype, know the application StereoMovieMaker. Its amasing what you can get for free. The user interface is not really friendly and it has limitations. But what I want to say is that the basic technilogy is there even in a freeware software.
have a nice Sunday
Istvan