EPIC-X, SCARLET-X timeline . . .

[Stephen Pruitt]

Now that the M-X upgrade for the one is out, and my number probably isn't that far away from RED's email, I am wondering if there is any additional news or rumors about when the Epic-X will be rolling out? Economics would dictate that I'd have to be a Stage III, and since we are starting to shoot our next film in mid-August, the decision to upgrade to the MX on the One or buy a Stage III Epic is not a trivial one for us.

I want the Epic-X. Any thoughts where we are on this timeline?

Stephen

[Julio Quintana]

That's the million dollar question every potential sensor upgrader is wondering. Hope to get some news soon.

[Mark L. Pederson]

That's the million dollar question every potential sensor upgrader is wondering. Hope to get some news soon.

Obviously RED is doing everything they can to get EPIC up and running and into the Tattoo beta program - and then into production.

The reality is ... anytime they tell you a time frame ... it's JUST A GUESS.

I just can't imagine that Tattoo beta will be less than 90 days long - so that's 3 months right there. MX cameras are rolling out NOW. In terms of the rental business - folks are going to demand this sensor. If you don't have it - they will look elsewhere.

When EPICs are available for rental - an MX RED ONE will be a perfect, economical B-Camera and/or back up body.

Personally - I didn't give much thought to the MX upgrade. I was so fixated on EPIC - and I assumed that upgrades to Red Ones would be AFTER the release of EPIC.

I also was not even thinking about keeping our RED ONE's until the "Tattoo" details emerged - and then I see Stage 1 has you keeping your Red One anyway ... so I started to think about keeping some of our Red Ones and getting them upgraded.

Well ... now that we have MX upgrades .... this is what I think:

#1: I can't imagine ANYONE shooting on Mysterium when they can shoot on MX.

My gut believed in RED from Day 1 - but I really never thought they would get it this good. I am sincerely blown away by the MX.

At OFFHOLLYWOOD we do RED every day - multiple projects shooting, multiple projects in post - day after day - RED RED RED.

Suddenly - there's a whole new energy in the place.

EVERYONE that works on our team is crazy excited about this sensor. Even our head of sales (a old film lover previously at Technicolor) insisted on doing his own little test at the end of the day on Friday - and his comment to me was ... "the is a whole new ballgame".

#2: Now, I want to keep all our RED ONE cameras and get them all upgraded to MX.

#3: My head might explode when I get a working Epic. Words can not express how excited I am now to get the MX sensor in that form-factor with those features. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the quality and range of the MX - I just can't image having that, with more pixels, higher framerates, etc. etc. in the half the size.

A RED ONE is always going to be worth MORE with an MX upgrade than without.

For the record - the price of a Red One + the price of an MX upgrade is still less ... than a Varicam.

[Jon B.]

Yes, definitely eager to find out also, understand it's more than just the brain but the entire system and handling of stages...

still don't know if it's the intention to give sensor upgrade option for the cameras first or roll out Epics amidst upgrades? So much on the plate to handle.

Who doesn't want to know? Figure we'll know when it's time.

[Jean Déraps]

Interesting comments Mark. If someone's turnover justifies it (and yours apparently does), then perhaps the investment will be worth it. A possible corollary to your point #1 is that, once Epics are widely available, I can't imagine anyone will want to shoot with a RED One if they have a choice between a RED One and and Epic. It's been often a hard enough sell getting people to use the RED One, and I imagine it may be hard to convince some of these that the RED One is still worthy of their production dollars once the Epic comes out. Some people are renting their RED One *kits* for $300-400/day now (at least in some places), so I can't see how one can make much money in the long run maintaining a separate camera body... perhaps I am missing something.
Don't forget, the total cost of keeping your RED One and making the MX upgrade is going to end up being $4500+$9000= $13500. (correct me if I'm wrong)
Just my 2 cents.

[Raphael Varandas]

Very Good Point Mark.
I agree 100% with you.
Best of Luck!

[Stephen Pruitt]

With respect to Mark's comment on using the RED One with an MX chip for B-camera shoots on Epic-X projects, I do have this question: I don't really have any "unimportant" shots in my work. I can't imagine how a 4K file would cut with a 5K file. I mean, I would think that it might be fairly obvious that we used different cameras, in which case, what would be the point? If I was doing a two-camera shoot, I would hate to say to myself, "Put the A-camera on him and the B-camera on her." I would want them both to have the same look in an over-the-shoulder. Since we don't have any Epic-X cameras to compare the footage with, no one can answer this sort of question to my knowledge. At least not yet.

Personally, I don't object to the form factor of the One, and would continue to use it if there was no difference in the footage between the two cameras. But there will certainly be differences, and so the use of the One for a B-camera doesn't make much sense to me. Unless I'm nuts and you really won't be able to tell the difference.

Any thoughts.

Thanks.

Steve

[Dustin Cross]

I have been saying for awhile, once S35 Scarlett is avail, it will be preferred over Red One with MX and Red One without MX will be at the bottom of the list.

The reason is listed in the article about working with Red in the current issue of American Cinematographer. Heat problems, battery connector problems, poor low light tungsten quality, rolling shutter, etc. All minor things, but all complained about all the time and fixed in Epic and Scarlett.

I am looking forward to stage 3 and have no plans to upgrade my R1 to MX, unless the Epic delays get to the point that I start loosing business and then I will have no choice. I would be all over Stage 1, but I don't think that will be an option for me.

Just my opinion.


Mahalo,
Dusty

[Mark B.]

I can't imagine proper utilization and testing of the Tattoo cameras can occur without editing software to support the output. So from that perspective the 3rd party software vendors might also impact the Tattoo phase period.

Personally, I'm hoping Epic-X doesn't get released for a very long time, because I'm nowhere near having enough money for the upgrade, and the job market sucks right now.

[Thomas Koch]

My guess is that if you don't have a RED ONE, you won't see an EPIC or Scarlet until 2011. That's just a hunch.

I could have bought a ONE a while back, but thought I would have a Scarlet S35 last summer, so I canceled it. Bad move. EPIC and scarlet are way late, and the sooner you get an MX one or even a ONE, the sooner you will be shooting.

However, that said, I really HOPE at RED DAY (I'll be there, YAY) that they tell us Scarlet is 4 months or less away and we'll take some money now.