House pisses me off

[Philip Bloom]

I have always considered places like this to be places to help each other not for bashing each other or making comments that read little more than comments from youtube, just with longer words!

Come on guys. The RED camera is awesome, what is coming out is going to be more awesome and in the meantime let's just be happy that things are moving forward and people are challenging preconceptions of what you can and can't do with something. RED is all about challenging the norm, and turning the establishment on it's head. So let the establishment be turned on it's head. That's a good thing. Who cares who is doing it because at the end of the day the people that benefit will be us, the filmmakers.

[Gabe Conroy]

I have always considered places like this to be places to help each other not for bashing each other or making comments that read little more than comments from youtube, just with longer words!

Come on guys. The RED camera is awesome, what is coming out is going to be more awesome and in the meantime let's just be happy that things are moving forward and people are challenging preconceptions of what you can and can't do with something. RED is all about challenging the norm, and turning the establishment on it's head. So let the establishment be turned on it's head. That's a good thing. Who cares who is doing it because at the end of the day the people that benefit will be us, the filmmakers.

Excellent post, I think this thread needs a chill pill.

[Rob Ruffo]

?????

Some posters here have been a bit rude, maybe me included, but most have been civil and real, new points have been made with information and experience that was not available when the first 5D vs X threads appeared. . I don't think it's cool to close any thread just because it's a lively discussion.

[Andrew Rieger]

I have always considered places like this to be places to help each other not for bashing each other or making comments that read little more than comments from youtube, just with longer words!

Come on guys. The RED camera is awesome, what is coming out is going to be more awesome and in the meantime let's just be happy that things are moving forward and people are challenging preconceptions of what you can and can't do with something. RED is all about challenging the norm, and turning the establishment on it's head. So let the establishment be turned on it's head. That's a good thing. Who cares who is doing it because at the end of the day the people that benefit will be us, the filmmakers.

Amen Philip!

Quick question, I wanted to first thank you so much for educating DSLR users and proving that it is a viable production tool in the right hands. Are you planning on adopting the Scarlet and continuing to educate the masses? I for one learned a great deal from your DSLR blog entries and hope you do the same with the Scarlet. There are a ton of future Scarlet users that have never read this forum and will need to be taught and you are the perfect man for the job.

[Rob Ruffo]

I have always considered places like this to be places to help each other not for bashing each other or making comments that read little more than comments from youtube, just with longer words!

Come on guys. The RED camera is awesome, what is coming out is going to be more awesome and in the meantime let's just be happy that things are moving forward and people are challenging preconceptions of what you can and can't do with something. RED is all about challenging the norm, and turning the establishment on it's head. So let the establishment be turned on it's head. That's a good thing. Who cares who is doing it because at the end of the day the people that benefit will be us, the filmmakers.

I'm sorry Phil, but I disagree. I'm all for someone releasing a $100 camera that shoots 1080p perfectly with low noise. I will be the first to pre-order and use it on a major job, IF it delivers on what it is supposed to do.

Misinformation does not help filmmakers, it is rather dangerous to them. A friend of mine shot a commercial on the 5D, and lost his shirt when half the takes had to be re-shot. Another friend wasted many days of a feature shoot, his first feature, using a 5D - as the film takes place in city streets and you can't have every shot be a shallow depth of field close-up. It almost ruined his career. I took them both out drinking. I took no pleasure in saying "I told you so". They were both influenced by the very hype the House shoot creates.

I don't think their real hardship is anything we should be embracing, and its' an insult to Red to say that they created false hype in the same way. They were always honest about limitations, from day 1, and still are. Because most of their users wre pros, not first-time amateurs like a majority of those using the 5D, correct, verifiable info was quickly available about any or all shortcomings, and still is on this forum for every build.

It's nice to be positive with posts like yours and then everyone applauds you, but there are some real, negative facts that are also important to address, even though nobody wants to hear them, and even though someone like me gets s--t on for bringing them up.

On the topic of misinformation, I would like to call you on one bit of it. The guys at Lucasfilm, I'm sure, said "Wow that's pretty cool for a $2500 camera" when they saw your 5D footage. I said that too, and still think it's true. However, I doubt they said "Let's shoot our next feature with this" or let's shoot our next anything with this, much like I also did not. I'm not saying you claim they did, but that's the impression gleaned, the internet myth spread.

Meanwhile indy little companies like Redrock, who finally got their 35mm adapters to be VERY good are getting no sales, despite the fact that their products can produce a much higher HD image quality than a 5D, and don't cost THAT much more. How is it beneficial to stear filmmakers away from affordable solutions that would be safer for them to use on their first pro gigs? That's what this hype is doing. Putting young talent at risk.

I don't see how encouraging people to run out and shoot an indy documentary on a 5D - and this is exactly the result of your blog and other work - I see no warnings about DSLR use and networks - only to have the door slammed in your face by all non-fiction networks only due to your unfortunate camera choice "helps us all as filmmakers."

.

[Philip Bloom]

I'm sorry Phil, but I disagree. I'm all for someone releasing a $100 camera that shoots 1080p perfectly with low noise. I will be the first to pre-order and use it on a major job, IF it delivers on what it is supposed to do.

Misinformation does not help filmmakers, it is rather dangerous to them. A friend of mine shot a commercial on the 5D, and lost his shirt when half the takes had to be re-shot. Another friend wasted many days of a feature shoot, his first feature, using a 5D - as the film takes place in city streets and you can't have every shot be a shallow depth of field close-up. It almost ruined his career. I took them both out drinking. I took no pleasure in saying "I told you so". They were both influenced by the very hype the House shoot creates.

I don't think their real hardship is anything we should be embracing, and its' an insult to Red to say that they created false hype in the same way. They were always honest about limitations, from day 1, and still are.

It's nice to be positive with posts like yours and then everyone applauds you, but there are some real, negative facts that are also important to address, even though nobody wants to hear them, and even though someone like me gets s--t on for bringing them up.

Nobody is hiding issues with these cameras. Like any camera in the right hands they can do wonders. Just as RED in the wrong hands can also create a pile of shit! I just don't get the whole negative vibe from you Rob.

[Philip Bloom]

Amen Philip!

Quick question, I wanted to first thank you so much for educating DSLR users and proving that it is a viable production tool in the right hands. Are you planning on adopting the Scarlet and continuing to educate the masses? I for one learned a great deal from your DSLR blog entries and hope you do the same with the Scarlet. There are a ton of future Scarlet users that have never read this forum and will need to be taught and you are the perfect man for the job.

Hi Andrew,

Thanks. Without a doubt I will be buying a Scarlet. I am always excited by new tools coming out and will adopt them if they are right for me. There is much in the Scarlet that excites me.

[Gabe Conroy]

Misinformation does not help filmmakers, it is rather dangerous to them. A friend of mine shot a commercial on the 5D, and lost his shirt when half the takes had to be re-shot. Another friend wasted many days of a feature shoot, his first feature, using a 5D - as the film takes place in city streets and you can't have every shot be a shallow depth of field close-up. It almost ruined his career. I took them both out drinking. I took no pleasure in saying "I told you so". They were both influenced by the very hype the House shoot creates.

The thing is though, shouldn't they have informed themselves better? The information is out there, and is pretty easy to find...that or they should've tested it themselves. Being a professional means understanding the tools of your craft so well people pay you for it.

On the topic of misinformation, I would like to call you on one bit of it. The guys at Lucasfilm, I'm sure, said "Wow that's pretty cool for a $2500 camera" when they saw your 5D footage. I said that too, and still think it's true. However, I doubt they said "Let's shoot our next feature with this" or let's shoot our next anything with this, much like I also did not. I'm not saying you claim they did, but that's the impression gleaned, the internet myth spread.

Well they did do reshoots for Red Tails on one...that's a major film otherwise shot on an F35.

[Philip Bloom]

Misinformation does not help filmmakers, it is rather dangerous to them. A friend of mine shot a commercial on the 5D, and lost his shirt when half the takes had to be re-shot. Another friend wasted many days of a feature shoot, his first feature, using a 5D - as the film takes place in city streets and you can't have every shot be a shallow depth of field close-up. It almost ruined his career. I took them both out drinking. I took no pleasure in saying "I told you so". They were both influenced by the very hype the House shoot creates.

On the topic of misinformation, I would like to call you on one bit of it. The guys at Lucasfilm, I'm sure, said "Wow that's pretty cool for a $2500 camera" when they saw your 5D footage. I said that too, and still think it's true. However, I doubt they said "Let's shoot our next feature with this" or let's shoot our next anything with this, much like I also did not. I'm not saying you claim they did, but that's the impression gleaned, the internet myth spread.

Ok let's address this and let's be frank here as you seem to like that. Your friends obviously had no experience with this camera before embarking on a paid job. Foolish. They are tricky beasts to learn. Took me some time to feel totally confident with them. Totally different to any video camera I have ever shot with.

Secondly, I am shooting pick ups on the $2500 camera for Lucasfilm alongside the F35s on "Red Tails". Many of my shots will make the final cut. We never had any intentions of replacing the F35s, as was said we are evaluating...As said in my post then as I say now, we are all aware of the limitations. If you go into a project ignoring them then that's your mistake. You can read my blog and make whatever assumption you want from it but I never said anything like that. Find the quote, send it to me and I will eat humble pie. I am an advocate for new techniques, new challenges, new cameras. I am pretty certain I have never said to ANYONE who has emailed me, throw out your video camera you don't need it anymore, just use the DSLR. I am very cautious, have been and will continue to be with their current limitations. Chinese whispers are dangerous Rob. Don't listen to them.

[Martin Weiss]

Please continue the discussion at dvxuser (minus the all-too-frequent personal insults)