Red Camera Motion Picture Examples And 4k Workflow

[I Bloom]

Does film camera have the same problem with strobes?

So could this be fixed in post?

A film camera has a similar need to sync with strobes, but it does not create that very digital looking horizontal split.

You might fix it in post, but only by painting...so the real answer is no.

Their are always compromises and trade offs with any technology. If you are using heavy strobing for a music video and you want to shoot digitally, you might consider the Dalsa Origin, which has a mechanical shutter and reads off a CCD rather than CMOS. But don't forget, no REDCODE compression on Dalsa, no purchasing the camera and the rental price is not so nice.

The only thing that bothers me about the rolling shutter on RED is lightning. :bye2:

IBloom

[Stephen Williams]

Note:


If you really need to catch it then always think 360 shutter...


JohnF

Hi,

Personally I don't like a 360 degree shutter, I prefer the film look of motion. Hopefully there will be a better solution from Red.

Stephen

[JohnF]

The solution is already out there, synced strobes!

The genlock output from the camera should be all that's need to provide a sync pulse for the stobes control systems. (though a "little-black-box" maybe needed to facilitate this)

JohnF

[Illya Friedman]

A film camera has a similar need to sync with strobes, but it does not create that very digital looking horizontal split.

You might fix it in post, but only by painting...so the real answer is no.

Their are always compromises and trade offs with any technology. If you are using heavy strobing for a music video and you want to shoot digitally, you might consider the Dalsa Origin, which has a mechanical shutter and reads off a CCD rather than CMOS. But don't forget, no REDCODE compression on Dalsa, no purchasing the camera and the rental price is not so nice.

The only thing that bothers me about the rolling shutter on RED is lightning. :bye2:

IBloom

I wouldn't say that. Last I checked an Origin II rents for roughly the same as a Viper using tapeless acquisition, significantly less than an F23/SRW1, and only half the price of a Genesis. In the world of high-end D Cinema we're definitely competitive.

And yes, since there is a real mechanical shutter (just below the optical viewfinder) there is NO rolling shutter artifacts in our 4K cameras.

I.

Illya Friedman
Dalsa
Woodland Hills, CA
www.dalsa.com/dc

[Graeme Nattress]

But does not the mechanical rotating shutter not act like a rolling shutter in that it takes a finite amount of time to wipe across the image?

Graeme

[Anders Holck]

Sure, but as the halfmoon blade wipe is done in the light path where its out of focus so it will act more like a general image attenuation.

My guess is that the flash look varying in intensity, instead of wiped.

You will still miss un synched flashes bit the cut off will be much more diffuse.

[Michael Lindsay]

But does not the mechanical rotating shutter not act like a rolling shutter in that it takes a finite amount of time to wipe across the image?

Graeme

would love this answered as this is my, albiet lay, understanding....

Michael

[Anders Holck]

Regarding this artifact on the RED, I can only see it as a problem with bursts that have an extremely short on-off changeover as it will only affect the readout /reset period. Any info you can share regarding the readout/reset timing when running 24 fps 1/48?

Regarding HMI they should not be affected in any way as they never shut off , due to the lamp afterglow. Even if using an old mechanical ballast with the camera running off sync, the flicker it's more like a 100% to 60% alternating sinus curve in intensity, which wouldnt show up as a wipe but a varying gradient. Haven't used a non flicker free HMI in a long time personally.

[Anders Holck]

Oh, and the 360° shutter would not fix this, as it's not really about the shutter per se. but about the time it takes for the sensor to be read out and reset for the next exposure, and the fact that you cannot start and stop integration for the whole sensor at the same instant.

I must say that Im really impressed at the readout improvements made since Crossing the line. Very few CMOS cameras comes close to this performance.

Electronic strobes are really tough because of the instant on-off. You'd be hard pressed to find any natural occurring phenomenon not having some ramping in its transition, which will look much more organic.

[Graeme Nattress]

Yes, we made some serious improvements after "Crossing the Line". If it's a physical rotating shutter or a rolling shutter, you're always going to have some artifact from it. I guess building a optical temporal anti-alias filter is out of the question?

Graeme