Odd difference between Full & Half Res high.

[Chris Pickle]

Does anyone know if Full Debayer might be a bit softer then half-res high?

I think that my shots rendered to 1080 in Half-Res High are sharper then the exact shots rendered to 4k in Full Debayer.

Is this possible?

Ok, I just did a quick search and it seems this is the norm. And I see that Jim is advocating doing a full debayer for online-always. I thought back in the day, the difference was negligible. The noise pattern in the full debayer is slightly.... different. Maybe a bit smoother, but also softer.

Now I'm confused as I always thought the difference between full and half was essentially impossible to see. And I need to send my 1080 to Color very soon to make an up & coming deadline.


Gawd, it seems like post info changes all the time. I just can't go to Redcine-x. RedRushes & RedAlert always worked so well.

This is so frustrating. I was originally trying to do the god damn blowups but I noticed that using the 4k for the blowups didn't give me a better image then the 1080 blown up on the FCp timeline. And everyone always touts Red for it's reframes, but nobody knows how to do it.


Sometimes I get so so so frustrated. The "Red" army was originally built from the Indie filmmakers, but it seems like only the big boys can afford the tools to make it work well.

Everything about Red has gone upmarket...

[Steven Caesare]

I believe it's been stated that the half-res debayer can intruduce some false sharpeneing as a result of using fewer samples to build the picture.

-sc

[Graeme Nattress]

Half normal is sharp through virtue of some mild aliasing. It's also a very quick decode. Half High does a downsample and demosaic combined from the full 4k data. It is also sharp due to the downsample filter used, which has some mild sharpening in it.

4k full demosaic does have more detail in the image, but it is utterly un-sharpened and has negligible aliasing. It responds very well to downsampling or sharpening.

Graeme

[Chris Pickle]

Half normal is sharp through virtue of some mild aliasing. It's also a very quick decode. Half High does a downsample and demosaic combined from the full 4k data. It is also sharp due to the downsample filter used, which has some mild sharpening in it.

4k full demosaic does have more detail in the image, but it is utterly un-sharpened and has negligible aliasing. It responds very well to downsampling or sharpening.

Graeme

Thanks Steven & Graeme. I've been really struggling with this.

So Graeme...

If I go to full debayer, where should I do the sharpening, if any. In Color? Or just on the FCP timeline? Any guesses on how much sharpening to add, if all things are being equal, and considering a 1080 master for broadcast, DVDs, and maybe the odd digital projection on the fest circuit.

I know that's a broad question, but I would imagine there are some common factors and preferences.

Thanks,
Chris

[Graeme Nattress]

Sharpening is so to taste! You've really got to do it while viewing on the desired output monitor / projector for best results. Sharpening is usually best done last, unless you're adding grain, then I'd add it before grain as you don't usually want to sharpen grain.

Graeme

[Chris Pickle]

Sharpening is so to taste! You've really got to do it while viewing on the desired output monitor / projector for best results. Sharpening is usually best done last, unless you're adding grain, then I'd add it before grain as you don't usually want to sharpen grain.

Graeme

Thanks.

So I probably know the answer as better quality is always.... better.

If you were mastering to 1080 for broadcast, would half-res high ever by acceptable.... I know I know... depended on lots of things. :)

Chris

[Graeme Nattress]

I like the look of half-rez high - but I'd think that a full rez downsampled will be a little bit better, although you may want to add some sharpening to taste.

Graeme