detailed 2k workflow

[till]

Hello...i told my company about red...they are interessted...but i have to "present" a 2k workflow.
For our needs it is enough to have a 2k Master.

can someone describe a detailed 2k workflow, please ?
thank you very much.

what i guess ( probably wrong) :

online:
shoot 4k
redalert: 2k DPX 10 bit RGB Lin
edit in FCP
send to Color
end

offline:
shoot 4k
redalert: 2k proxy QT
edit in FCP
but then ?

[Brandon Fraley]

i wont be too helpful here, but thought i'd mention that you can shoot 2k also, especially if you know you're finishing in 2k

[till]

i know that it is possible to shoot 2k, but i don`t know the workflow in detail,

i am not a technichian...would be very cool, if i can convince the guys

I just want to be able to say ...hey guys, look at this pics...look at this workflow, go on and order.

[mezmo]

Hi Till,
Read all the threads here, you'll get a good idea.
It's a little complex.
Mezmo

[till]

i started with red present 4k workflow...it is really complicated.
but as far as i understand there are 2 ways:

you have the goodies:
offline in fcp
finish with scratch/ or Cineform AE

you don`t have the goodies:
offline in fcp
take your footage and EDL to post house.
spend some money, get your master, filmout etc.

but thank you...
it would be very cool if there would be a thread just about the differenent workflows.
like the config. ( yellow threads). etc.

[laguun]

optional - colorcorrect on set with speedgrade on set
generate 2k uncompressed for on, cineform 2k proxy for on/offline.
edit premiere or fcp, osx or ppro win
colorcorrect iridas speedgrade, osx or win
switch to uncompressed master or stay cineform
output.

all this will become much easier once redcine is available.

[till]

i thought i can do 1st cc just with redalert because of red files. then convert the files...in any format.

how can i cc on set with speedgrade?

or am i missing something.

[laguun]

i thought i can do 1st cc just with redalert because of red files. then convert the files...in any format.

how can i cc on set with speedgrade?

or am i missing something.

export from ra, and with speedgrade on set (or even the full version) you can store the .look file on set.
this can then be used in the online, also automatically.
http://spotlight.iridas.com/200611/
gives some insight and they also have a free trial download of the 2006 version for osx and win.

iridas supports all raw cameras (phantom 65, arri D20, si 2k & mini, weisscam) which became available before red, and they told us at IBC that once red specifies the r3d raw format, they will support it at once as well.

i and many of our dps like that workflow especially for fullfeature. with the inexpensive speedgrade on set they email us the .look and a small image and we can respond with more detailed variations (or checkout problematic areas) back in the studio.

they evolved that workfow since 2001, when their products were used for the matrix II & III pipeline.
http://spotlight.iridas.com/200411/index.html

[GlennChan]

Till, I think the workflows may vary a little depending on your needs. Some of the workflow details also aren't clear right now (e.g. Redcine).

Do you need to make dailies? Color corrected dailies?
Do you need to support double system sound?

Are you going to online on a serious online system and/or color grading system? (e.g. Flame, Mystika, iQ, etc. etc.) If so then you need to go through the offline/online process
For other people, it's more efficient to avoid offline/online if you can. Because you need to spend a chunk of time conforming the show. However, you don't have your project in one of the fast+powerful systems that are good at online editing (in comparison, FCP is neither; AE and Color are powerful, but not fast).

send to Color

There are some issues to watch out for with Color. Test! Once you know where the landmines are, you will not have problems and can get work done. See the stickied thread in 4k workflow.

2- To clarify... my usage of offline/online seems to differ from yours. The first stage of editing is offline editing. The second stage is online editing, where you may do any of the following:
a- Re-capture your footage at higher quality. (In the case of Red you would re-output with a high quality deBayer.)
b- Move and conform the project to a different editing/finishing system. If it's all on the same computer, then you don't really move anything.
c- Change the codec settings to output/deBayer at highest quality. (Not sure if Redcode RAW will do this; this is what Cineform RAW does.)

If you only have one stage of editing/don't do the above, then offline/online doesn't apply.

[GlennChan]

Some example workflows:

Shoot 4K if you can. This gives you the most options + highest quality. You can do things like export 4K stills for publicity, sell your footage as stock footage (better if it's 4K), do punch ins (zoom in /reframe), stabilize the image, etc.

A- Convert everything to Prores.

This will give you the most real-time performance in FCP. You will take a very small hit in quality by converting to Prores. But it's a simple workflow and I'd consider it the baseline. There shouldn't be issues in sending to Color (other than not having too many cuts).

--Shoot 4K.
--In the field you might want to do some sort of backup on the 4K RAW files, possibly onto LTO tape or other data/computer tape format.
Or maybe shoot it all onto compact flash, and backup later.
--When it gets to post, convert all the clips to Prores. You may or may not want to omit bad takes (shouldn't matter that much).
--Plop files into FCP, edit away.
--Do any finishing and color work in FCP and/or AE and Color.

*AFAIK prores doesn't do 2K resolution???

B- Edit via Quicktime reference files

The camera and Redquick will generate quicktime reference files that point to the RAW footage. They will deliver a real-time proxy extraction of the 4K material.

Load these files into a compatible NLE (e.g. any quicktime-compatible NLE like FCP, Premiere, Vegas, and some others; Avid won't support this since it needs media in MXF wrapper).

Finish offline edit.

Send EDL (or maybe XML) to redcine. Redcine will, from that list, figure out what clips need to be de-Bayered at high quality. It will output the high quality clips in a format of your choice (DPX, Quicktime, TIFF presumably; and openEXR). The Red Pull List is involved somewhere (details are sketchy on this?)... you may need it if offline and online are being done in two separate facilities???
Anyways, one would presume that you will end up with an EDL that references the high quality clips. So you send that EDL to your finishing program, and it should hopefully be able to figure out where the clips referenced in the EDL are. From what I remember in Color, it will only do this if all your clips are in the same folder (as the EDL).

You need to pay attention to the conform process. No illegal characters, no reel names longer than 8 characters, plus other issues.

And you'll need to re-create effects other than cut, dissolve, and linear speed change.