H.264 Gamma Missmatch - please Help

[Kim Frank]

I don't know if this was stated elsewhere, if so, please point me in the direction.
I just recently switched from Mac to PC and am using the ADOBE workflow.
I'm really satisfied with my System, the RED Workflow and even the OS, but I'm getting in the good old GAMMA MISSMATCH Problem again.
On Mac, I solved it by highlighting MATCH QUICKTIME GAMMA LEGACY in the Project settings of After Effects. Then I rendered out in ANIMATION Codec and transcoded to H.264 in MPEG STREAMCLIP. Everything looked great on any OS and APPLICATION.
Now on WINDOWS 7 my render out of AE in Animation codec looks great, but the transcode to H.264 is washed out. I tried many different ways but got the same result.
Than I found a fix, that seemed to work:
After rendering into a QuickTime/h.264 file, open it up in QuickTime and select “Show Movie Properties.” Highlight the video track then click on the “Visual Settings” tab. Towards the bottom left you should see “Transparency” with a drop-down box next to it. Select “Blend” from the menu then move the “Transparency Level” slider to 100%. Choose “Straight Alpha” from the same drop-down and close the properties window and finally “Save.”
But on my system the final Qucktime, that now has the right gamma, stutters while Playback in Quicktimeplayer.
Any thoughts, how I can make my H.264 Clips for Client preview look as good as possible?

[David McGavran]

I don't know if this was stated elsewhere, if so, please point me in the direction.
I just recently switched from Mac to PC and am using the ADOBE workflow.
I'm really satisfied with my System, the RED Workflow and even the OS, but I'm getting in the good old GAMMA MISSMATCH Problem again.
On Mac, I solved it by highlighting MATCH QUICKTIME GAMMA LEGACY in the Project settings of After Effects. Then I rendered out in ANIMATION Codec and transcoded to H.264 in MPEG STREAMCLIP. Everything looked great on any OS and APPLICATION.
Now on WINDOWS 7 my render out of AE in Animation codec looks great, but the transcode to H.264 is washed out. I tried many different ways but got the same result.
Than I found a fix, that seemed to work:
After rendering into a QuickTime/h.264 file, open it up in QuickTime and select “Show Movie Properties.” Highlight the video track then click on the “Visual Settings” tab. Towards the bottom left you should see “Transparency” with a drop-down box next to it. Select “Blend” from the menu then move the “Transparency Level” slider to 100%. Choose “Straight Alpha” from the same drop-down and close the properties window and finally “Save.”
But on my system the final Qucktime, that now has the right gamma, stutters while Playback in Quicktimeplayer.
Any thoughts, how I can make my H.264 Clips for Client preview look as good as possible?

Don't do that blend stuff in QT it will come to me as a bug at some point. Why not just go directly from PPro to QT h.264? We make sure there isn't any gamma shift. Skip the Animation step.

Cheers

Dave

[Kim Frank]

Thanks David...
I tried to render straight out of PP and still got the Gamma missmatch in Quicktime.
BUT Windows Media Player plays the file with the right gamma and the Upload on VIMEO has the correct gamma too. So what is this up to? Any Ideas?
Regards
KIM

[David McGavran]

Thanks David...
I tried to render straight out of PP and still got the Gamma missmatch in Quicktime.
BUT Windows Media Player plays the file with the right gamma and the Upload on VIMEO has the correct gamma too. So what is this up to? Any Ideas?
Regards
KIM

can I see the file?

Dave

[Kim Frank]

That's the Vimeo Link of the one I was talking about:
http://vimeo.com/15171034
If you are a member you should also be able to download, but its 300MB

[Hans von Sonntag]

Thanks David...
I tried to render straight out of PP and still got the Gamma missmatch in Quicktime.
BUT Windows Media Player plays the file with the right gamma and the Upload on VIMEO has the correct gamma too. So what is this up to? Any Ideas?
Regards
KIM

Kim, we have the same workflow like you and the same problems. I think it's due to QT on Windows. QT on Windows has more sever gamma shifts than on the Mac. We avoid QT on Windows.

FYI, try CineForm. On the Windows platform they use AVI as the container. AVI hardly shifts any gamma, you can only tell the difference with a histogram, never by eye. CineForm also has a 4444 codec that includes alpha. The quality is in the realm of HDCAM-SR or better.

Hans

[Hans von Sonntag]

That's the Vimeo Link of the one I was talking about:
http://vimeo.com/15171034
If you are a member you should also be able to download, but its 300MB

Good video!


Hans

[Chuck Z]

Kim Frank,

Everything you've done is fine and correct. The problem is, and always has been, QuickTime on Windows. It applies a lower gamma on video playback.

Most media players that support QuickTime movies should render the video with the correct output gamma. (For instance, I believe WMP12 and MPC-HC have no problems.)

My advice, now that you're on Windows, is to avoid any workflow or intermediary files that involve QuickTime. Once you've imported, edited and finished your RED shots, export to a standard video file format like WMV9 (for Windows systems) or H.264 (universally accepted), but wrapped in .wmv and .mp4 containers, respectively.

[Kim Frank]

Thank you for your Responses...
Glad you liked it Hans! I shot it on my 5DII.
I'll try your advices, but my main concern is that the client sees the Preview Clips I send before finishing have the correct gamma on any system and Player, because its quiet a hussle to have to explain something technical when it's about the art.
Does any of your advises accomplish that?

[Hans von Sonntag]

...my main concern is that the client sees the Preview Clips I send before finishing have the correct gamma on any system and Player, because its quiet a hussle to have to explain something technical when it's about the art.

That's the reason why there are systems that provide colour accurate playback. Iridas FrameCycler is one of them. Such systems are build to close the pipeline between post production and director when the director is not available and somewhere else around. But that's expensive and needs special hardware.

I think http://www.inmethod.com/air-video/in...D5A382E62EABCF may help to solve these problems. We are going to implement it for our clients. I'm not sure how this behaves regarding colour shifts.

Avoid QT. That's what we do. And tell all those clients that use a Mac to set their monitor gamma to 2.2 (OSX legacy gamma is 1.8...)

We have less problems with clients that use Windows. Apple messed this up.

Sorry to be not really helpful,

Hans