Red One - What do I need?

[Eric Wescott]

I'm looking to put together a quote for my school in an attempt to get a Red One for student use. Since I've never used one I have a few questions on what I need to get one up and running..

MEDIA:
First, I don't see a RED-DRIVE anymore? So the RED STATION REDMAG 2.5".. Does this mean I can just insert any 2.5" SATA hard drive? SSD or spinning? Or do I need to make sure it meets some other specs?

What's the purpose of the RED STATION BASE? Just to allow multiple REDMAG/Compact Flash to be used in conjunction? ie auto switching when one fills up w/o cutting? That sort of thing?


DISPLAYS:
The specs say it can output HDMI. Does that mean I can use our existing monitors? Do they require a specific resolution to function? Or must the primary display be HD-SDI?

RAILS/CASE
Any cheaper alternatives exist than the base production pack? It's going to be a hard to sell the school on a $1300 for a rail setup and a $600 case. I know these are actually reasonable prices but if there are any cheap (even DIY) solutions that I could go with now and then in the future get more funds for rails/cases..

Last, Just to make sure I have this right.. What i need to get up and running is
BASE
MEDIA - RED STATION CF or REDMAG
POWER - Charger+batteries
DISPLAY - VF or LCD
RAILS
LENS

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks
Eric

[Martin Weiss]

Eric,

RED Drive is no longer produced. You can use 16gig CF cards (or 8gig).

Station Base is to cut down on the cables - it is not a requirement.

If you are on a tight budget, I would get a stills lens adapter so you can use Canon, Nikon, Contax or a number of other good quality lenses.

The only thing missing from your list is a tripod and of course a script ;)

good luck!

[Martin Ubilluz]

I have seen this before and it usually does not work out. How do you plan on teaching this camera with out knowing it your self. I think things like this give RED a bad name. The school I used to go to did the same thing and they bought a RED camera and had no idea how to use it and got the most basic setup. The teacher was frustrated they had no idea about the work flow and it made it impossible for them to use. The students just thought it was an impossible camera to work with and they gave up on it thinking it was too advanced or did not work properly.

[Eric Wescott]

I have seen this before and it usually does not work out. How do you plan on teaching this camera with out knowing it your self. I think things like this give RED a bad name. The school I used to go to did the same thing and they bought a RED camera and had no idea how to use it and got the most basic setup. The teacher was frustrated they had no idea about the work flow and it made it impossible for them to use. The students just thought it was an impossible camera to work with and they gave up on it thinking it was too advanced or did not work properly.

I understand your concern but we are purchasing for a student organization. Specifically one dedicated to film making. We will learn to use this camera. I will personally be using it as much as I can. I consider myself a pretty tech savvy person (I'm majoring in Film and Computer Science) and would love to learn all the ins and outs of this camera. Obviously I don't know them now but everyone has to start somewhere..

I don't have access to one to play with. I don't have the money to purchase or even rent one. Red.com isn't exactly the most informative web site if you've never actually used a digital cinema camera before. Our school has equipment but it's all consumer/prosumer level like the Canon XHA1. I can't be expected to know everything about the Red without doing research. This is my attempt to do such research.

The grant I'm working with is awarded once a semester so I'm attempting to keep it as low as possible and still get a "working" camera. I simply can not afford to get everything in one purchase. It's going to be a tough sell as it is but it's going to be next to impossible if I tell them they have to spend $25,000 for a camera that won't be functional until they cough up another $XX,000 next semester to buy X modules.

I will most likely get some money but it's very unlikely I will get the full amount I ask for. So I need to find any alternatives Can I find a cheaper 3rd party/DIY rail system? Can I find a cheaper case? Do I have to use the HD-SDI connection for my primary display/viewfinder? Or can I just plug in any HDMI compatible LCD and use the camera? Those seem like three areas where I can cut costs if I absolutely had to. Don't get me wrong I would love to just purchase all official RED equipment for ease of use and compatibility but that just might not be possible.

I am still confused about the REDMAG module. Can I just use any 2.5" (SATA I assume) hard drive? SSD or spinning? I remember seeing a Red Drive in the past that consisted of a raid-0 array so I wasn't sure if just any 2.5" HD is fast enough to write to. Are there specific specs I need to know when purchasing these hard drives to use in this module.

[Rob Ruffo]

Cheap way to go is Long Valley 15mm rails that screw directly into the front of the camera, then get a nice 15mm MatteBox from Cinevate, and Cinevate follow focus - best follow focus deal on the planet! You'll have something light, that just works.

[Eric Wescott]

Cheap way to go is Long Valley 15mm rails that screw directly into the front of the camera, then get a nice 15mm MatteBox from Cinevate, and Cinevate follow focus - best follow focus deal on the planet! You'll have something light, that just works.

Thanks! I'll look into those rod support setups. MatteBox and Follow Focus I'm considering as luxury items right now. I would absolutely love to have them but we can make due without them for now.

[Eric Wescott]

Eric,

RED Drive is no longer produced. You can use 16gig CF cards (or 8gig).

Station Base is to cut down on the cables - it is not a requirement.

If you are on a tight budget, I would get a stills lens adapter so you can use Canon, Nikon, Contax or a number of other good quality lenses.

The only thing missing from your list is a tripod and of course a script ;)

good luck!

8/16gig CF cards don't feel like a viable option to me. That's just not enough space. Can I use any 2.5" SATA drive with the REDMAG? Does it have to be SSD? Are there very specific specs?

Unfortunately I don't really have access to any decent lens. Right now I'd probably just get like the 17-50mm or 18-85mm to start and over time start collecting a nice set of primes.

My personal tripod (head rated to 18lbs) I suspect might not do the job since the body alone is 10lbs... Not sure what a typical red rig weighs but I have access to some nice ones at school that should do the trick.

If I'm lucky I get the funds to purchase what I need directly from red.com 's store but if not.. I'm going to attempt to cut corners on rails, case and lens.. Know any cheaper alternatives for these items?

[Peter Strietmann]

Hi Eric,

It appears your budget is only 25 grand. I hate to rain on the parade but a new red lists for that. I would take Martin's advice and go with the still glass until you can afford whatever would be appropriate. If you had to go with one lens the 17-50 will get you a lot of bang for your buck. The raid drive will be your biggest hurdle at this point. Your tripod head sounds very marginal and if you do go with the 18-85 is will not suffice. For now to save money go with screw in filters, rack focus on the barrel and a zoom stick. If you do you may be able to get away with your own sticks. I say go for it, no regrets and don't look back.

p

[Eric Wescott]

Hi Eric,

It appears your budget is only 25 grand. I hate to rain on the parade but a new red lists for that. I would take Martin's advice and go with the still glass until you can afford whatever would be appropriate. If you had to go with one lens the 17-50 will get you a lot of bang for your buck. The raid drive will be your biggest hurdle at this point. Your tripod head sounds very marginal and if you do go with the 18-85 is will not suffice. For now to save money go with screw in filters, rack focus on the barrel and a zoom stick. If you do you may be able to get away with your own sticks. I say go for it, no regrets and don't look back.

p

Sorry to confuse everyone but my budget is not $25,000. I just was giving an example. The policy is right now is ask exactly what I want and it's a negotiation process for the final budget. I KNOW I won't get exactly what I ask for so I'm aiming high and hoping they cut money where I can find cheaper alternatives.

Something along the lines of I need $40,000 for this that and the other.. They say... Well you can have 25 for this, 5 for that and 5 for other. So if I play my cards right I can find alternatives for the areas I don't receive my asking amount. It's kinda a goofy process so I'm just looking for useful alternatives.

My worst fear they cut me way down and I have to get a 5D Mark II and lots of goodies for it. I'd really like to get us a RED though. I think it would be a big step in the right direction for our production club. Gotta aim high I guess :)

[Stephen Strangways]

The RED station components you see listed at the RED store: the RED station base, RED station compact flash, RED Station REDmag 1.8" and RED station REDmag 2.5" are for offloading media to your computer.

Currently, the only media RED sells is the 16 GB CF cards, which you use with the RED CF module attached to the camera.

At some point in the future, you will be able to replace the CF module on the camera with a 1.8" SSD module, and purchase 1.8" REDmags, which use a proprietary connection.
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread....172#post648172

The 2.5" module will use off-the-shelf hard drives, but you will not attach them to the camera. You will just use them to store footage that was shot on CF cards or 1.8" REDmags.

If you need more storage than the 16GB CF cards, and you can't wait for the 1.8" REDmags to arrive at some undetermined point in the future, your best best would be to purchase a used RED Drive. The RED Drive is a RAID array of two spinning laptop hard drives. RED Drives were made initially in 320GB and later 640GB versions.