Storage

[Stacey Spears]

I am torn on which OS to run.

1. Vista 32-bit - This is what I am currently using. Had trouble installing CS3. Now I can't get CS3 updates to install. GPT appears to be working.
2. XP 32-bit - Would like to switch back to XP, but no GPT support.
3. Server 2003 SP1 32-bit - More or less XP with GPT support. Problem is CS3 blocks install on Server so they don't have to support. Have to do manual work to get CS3 to install.

4. 64-bit anything - I would love to run 64-bit, but there are the issues of driver application support. Unclear how well CS3, Redcine and SCRATCH will work on a 64-bit OS, not to mention other applications I will want to use.

[Kevin Halverson]

Seems like the most stable option is 2, but yeah no GPT support. Can you repartition your storage so you don't exceed 2TB segments?

Would be interested to hear from anyone using XP Pro x64.

[Stacey Spears]

Can you repartition your storage so you don't exceed 2TB segments?

Yes. How do applications deal with this? Lets say I create a feature length edit on the R3D in [insert favorite app here] and then export as [favorite uncompressed file sequence]. Does the application automatically move to the next volume when low on disc space?

[Mike McCarthy]

Yes. How do applications deal with this? Lets say I create a feature length edit on the R3D in [insert favorite app here] and then export as [favorite uncompressed file sequence]. Does the application automatically move to the next volume when low on disc space?

If your favorite App is After Effects, and you are going to a frame sequence, then yes, it does support that, and has for many versions. It is called storage overflow, and you can set it to kick in when your drive is say 95% full, and you can que up at least 4 volumes. And that would be one of the LEAST efficient solutions to the problem. (Right up there next to installing Vista purely for GPT support)

There are many ways to access a volume over 2TB. One is to use Vista or XP64 to access GPT disks. Downsides of these are limited driver support, so it depends on your hardware. Do you have an HD-SDI card or any other unique hardware that needs special drivers? XP64 isthe preferable option, and will offer the best performance, provided all of your HARDWARE supports it. CS2/3 and most other SOFTWARE support it automatically.

The next option is to use larger block sizes. I posted info about this last week:

Increasing the formating block size from the default of 512 bytes to 4096 bytes (8x increase from .5K to 4K) increases the maximum drive size windows can recognize from 2TB to 16TB.

The long answer is: as a 32bit OS, XP can address 2^32 blocks (just over 4 billion) so if each block is .5K or 2^9, then 2^9 x 2^32 = 2^41 (add the exponents). 2^41 is just over 2 trillion, therefore 2 terabytes. If we increase the block size to 2^12 (add 3 to the exponent, or multiply by 8 which is 2^3) our total addressable size increases from 2^41 to 2^44, which is 16 trillion bytes, or 16TB. (Quick reference for exponents, 2^10 is approximately 1000, so for every digit in the tens place, append ",000" to the result first digit result. 2^4=16, 2^24= about 16,000,000)

Are you planning to use RAID 5/6 for your 8x 750GB drives? If not, stripe them in XP, no further problem. For RAID 5/6, you will have a 4.5 or 5.25 TB volume, so a 2K block size will allow XP32 to address the whole volume. In order to increase the block size, both the RAID controller and the apps must support it. I can't confirm the 3ware card, but most do, you may have to call them to check. Most software supports increased block sizes, Adobe does for sure, but be aware it could be an issue for some "accelerated " apps.

The last option is to stripe or span 2TB segments together in Windows disk manager. 3Ware has an Auto-Carving feature that I assume works on this principle. I have been told that striping between to volumes on the same physical disks can hurt performance, but I can't confirm that, and spanning should be fine.

I was previously limited by Matrox's lack of block size support, so all of my storage is designed around 2TB segments (8x250GB disks, or 5x400GB disks, or 4x500GBdisks, usually plus one for RAID 5 redundancy) They now support larger block sizes, but I haven't purchased storage in a while. XP64 with GPT might not be a bad way to go if you have full hardware support. Otherwise increase the block size for no hit on performance, but the minimum file size increases to 2K, no big deal for post production.

[Stacey Spears]

(Right up there next to installing Vista purely for GPT support)

The original reason for Vista was GDI+ 1.1. I wanted to take advantage of the 8x8 antialiasing (vs. 8x4 in 1.0) in an application that I have been developing. It turns out that if I copy the GDIplus.dll from Office and drop it in the same folder as my app, all is well.

I am planning to run some RAID0, 5 and 6 tests. RAID5 is probably what I will use. I will also try increasing the block size as you have suggested. I will get all of this sorted before I settle on the final OS.

[Mike McCarthy]

By all indications, Vista will introduce a significant performance hit, so I would make sure it is really necessary before using it on an edit system. It seems that you don't have a dedicated system, so there are obviously other factors you have to take into account. It seems pretty clear that XP64 will offer the best post-production performance in most situations, but my hardware config currently prevents it.

[Edgar Pitts]

Does XP64 allow for FC SAN systems? (Software & Hardware)

[Mike McCarthy]

Fibre Channel SANs were originally designed for servers, so hardware support for 64bit OS is widespread. (Some HBAs don't even have XP32 drivers, 64bit OS only) The software is a different issue, for metadata management, but I am sure certain solutions work. MetaSAN does, and StorNex should as well.

As with most technology advancements, as long as all the little individual pieces support it, you will see major benefits. And there are FC-SAN pieces that support 64bit, but not every single option will, so you will have to check carefully.

[Sven Seynaeve]

I've been doing some searching but could not find a descent answer on this case. Could we technically not built a storage device as good as the dulce or even higher end by ourselves using a supermicro 24 bay chassis in combination with 3ware 9690 card (maby 3of them??) , eventually working as 3x8 with the new hitachi 1TB disks?? Just the case with the SAS expander and you you should wire the cabling if this is possible I couldn't find out by myself. IN case you use a supermicro chassis to build the pc as well (as I did in january for my new workstation) you could put in 8 drives as well., this would be 32TB of storage for a very reasonable price,, but still..... if this works?????

[SalaTar]

Quote:
Windows XP 32 is limited to 2TB volumes unless you increase the block size of the drives.

Ignoring the cost of the OS for a second, what about using Server 2003 SP1 with GPT enabled?

Stacey Spears
nope
explain the 3.18 TB I have on xp 32 x3