More SSD questions $$$$$

[Bob Rudis]

Originally Posted by Michael Hastings
Where has it been finalized that there would a charge for the epics ssd side module? It was my understanding that the ssd is the standard and CF module is no more (except as a future option - think still shooters with lots of cfs), and that Jim hasn't decided if or what the add'l charge would be. If you look at the red station modules both cf and ssd are $250 so add'l hardware cost should be minimal and presumable no more than $250 at most since the entire separate ssd unit is $250 retail - the side plate is otherwise essentially the same with the LCD connectors, rec switch, etc. so once you decide to go in that direction in volume costs should be almost the same.

The Side SSD has more to it. I believe it has a lemo connector and possible an on off switch, which both drive up the price.

[Deanan]

This helps me make sense of a lot of things and also helps me understand why SSD makes sense as the viable recording option.

Can we still shoot 4K on EPIC or does that mean it crops or scales?

David

4k will be a crop on Epic but it'll be the same FOV as RED One M/MX.

[Bob Rudis]

#1: Not true for Epic. 5k is now a higher data rate and you have to drop below REDcode 28(RC 10:1) for the 5k on 16GB cards. Since most people are recording at higher than redcode 28, 16GB cards won't be very useful. Even if they could record fast enough to do Redcode 42 (RC 7.5:1), the run times would under 4 minutes.

At 5k 2:1 and REDcode 5:1 (which will likely be what most features shoot with), a 64GB SSD will be about 12-13 minutes.

#2: I think we'll see RC 5:1 become the norm for most productions based on the feedback we've gotten.

#3: True and that doesn't change the cost and performance advantages over 16GB cards especially considering their use on Epic.

#4: Agreed. If you're buying Epic and expect data rates go down, that doesn't make sense.

Thank you for this information. It's what we need to make informed decisions. Seems the 128 G SSD's may be the sweet spot for 5K recording.

[David Battistella]

4k will be a crop on Epic but it'll be the same FOV as RED One M/MX.

Ok. Now, it's making complete sense. Using the full 5K means more data so the need for SSD.

I need to forget what I know about the R1-MX and those data rates because it kind goes out the window when you add another 1000 pixels wide.

And cropping to 4K on EPIC will be like 3K on R1 (slightly grainier I am guessing) so 5K is going to be the 95% of the time mode.

When you explain it this way, then the cost increase to move the technology forward makes complete sense. It's a small hit but worth it.

David

[Cüneyt Kaya]

will there be a ssd module, ssd cards and ssd station bundle?

and i guess a high contrast forrest wide shot with HDRx, 5k and 5:1 ratio is superb.
this is exactly the scenario where you can reach the limits of redcode 42.
so i am cool with 6GB per minute.
3TB drives are getting cheaper every day

[D Fuller]

And cropping to 4K on EPIC will be like 3K on R1 (slightly grainier I am guessing) so 5K is going to be the 95% of the time mode.

I don't think this is true. Remember, this is the same sensor. 4K on EPIC will be the same as 4K on R1. That said, 5K will be an improvement in resolution, and through downsampling, an improvement in noise, so you're probably right about 5K being the 95% mode.

[Michael Hastings]

The Side SSD has more to it. I believe it has a lemo connector and possible an on off switch, which both drive up the price.

Wouldn't those have been on the side CF that was originally part of the Epic-X. And even if not, would a Lemo and an on/off switch suggest a $1500 addition?

PS: to further clarify, please remember I'm talking about the Epic-X R1 Tradein/upgrade package which was to be a complete, workable package - initially with a side CF module which had (at least-maybe more, I don't have the list in front of me) an EVF or monitor LEMO and a record switch.

The regular Epic was shown as brain only - and $28K at that time, and ALL modules separate/additional.

[David Battistella]

I don't think this is true. Remember, this is the same sensor. 4K on EPIC will be the same as 4K on R1. That said, 5K will be an improvement in resolution, and through downsampling, an improvement in noise, so you're probably right about 5K being the 95% mode.

I think we will see a visual grain difference between 5K and 4K on EPIC even though it is the same sensor, EPIC's "higher" processing power and newer components (compared to the R1MX) will (i think) yield much cleaner images.



David

[Brook Willard]

Ok. Now, it's making complete sense. Using the full 5K means more data so the need for SSD.

I need to forget what I know about the R1-MX and those data rates because it kind goes out the window when you add another 1000 pixels wide.

And cropping to 4K on EPIC will be like 3K on R1 (slightly grainier I am guessing) so 5K is going to be the 95% of the time mode.

When you explain it this way, then the cost increase to move the technology forward makes complete sense. It's a small hit but worth it.

David

I'd expect 4K on the Epic to be very similar to the current MX at the same data rates. If you choose less compression, I'd expect the images to be better.

The idea to switch from the 28/36/42 labeling system to ratios makes much more sense. Remember that something like RC28 on the Epic would result in compression roughly like RC~20 on the RED ONE. The differences would be a pain to make sense of. I expect we'll see a RED ONE build [build 32?] that will change from RCXX values to RC X:1 values.

More resolution, less compression, faster media speeds... everything's good. When people move from something like an HVX to a RED ONE, they're blown away by "how much data" the camera generates. The RED ONE generates miniscule amounts of data for what it produces. Jumping to the Epic will shock many people in a similar manner. This is a whole new beast.

[Shawn Nelson]

David, Michael,
Yeah I thought too that SSD had become the included default module, but Jarred recently made it clear that it's a different sort of "default"...you have to pay for it http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.ph...0&postcount=99

Not ordering one would be like declining to buy the 'default' seats in a car :-)