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  1. #1 "The Truth About 2K...Future of Pixels" via Creative Cow 
    Junior Member Robert Sloan's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how many of you have seen this, but here's an interesting opinion piece on John Galt's vision of the future of digital cinematography. He's the SVP of Advanced Digital Imaging at Panavision, so there's some serious bias, I think.

    An intriguing read to get some other's opinions, though:
    http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...ture-of-pixels

    Here's an excerpt:
    So 4K is not these 8 mega pixel or 9 mega pixel or 10 mega pixel CMOS images for the Bayer pattern where they add up all the pixels in a row and say hey, we got 4K. The great perpetrators of that mythology have been RED and Dalsa. That's why I call these “marketing pixels." It's intentional obfuscation. Because they really do nothing to improve image quality. They may improve sales volume. But they don't do anything to quality.
    Like I said, opinion. I think the slew of well-regarded DPs, Directors, and Producers that have come to use the RED cameras on their projects would argue with the last bits of that quote. Back-to-film resolution that beats that "DI" resolution, latitude that exceeds what film is capable of, and extreme low light performance are things I would consider "improvements to quality."

    Anyone else have thoughts?
     

  2. #2  
    We already discussed that article a while back.

    If anyone wants to know how much each manufacturer's camera resolves per color channel, and how much aliasing they allow, all you have to do is point them at some charts. Nobody can hide anything ultimately, marketing or not.

    It's not like alternatives to Bayer patterns, like RGB stripes, don't have their own issues. Even using three separate sensors for RGB and using a prism block to split the light has its disadvantages.

    Red learned a long time ago not to confuse measurable resolution with recorded pixel dimensions, however, the basic problem is language, not marketing -- "4K" is a shortcut term, few people constantly want to be more specific and type "measurable 4K per color", or "4K RAW", or "4K RGB", whatever. It's not generally done to obscure or mislead.

    When Dalsa first announced a "4K" camera, they spent a lot of time arguing with people who said that a Bayer pattern meant that they only had 2K for green and 1K each for red and blue. The mistake Dalsa made was insisting that their algorithms were giving them 4K per color rather than being clear that they meant that the debayering algorithm created 4K files per color channel but that measurable resolution would be slightly lower. To some degree, Red just got caught in that ongoing argument. But it's sooo mid-2000's, you know what I mean? It's 2011 and we're still debating whether a 4K sensor is 4K? Why not point out that an 1080P HD recording can't resolve 1920 x 1080 without aliasing?

    No one is being dishonest -- John Galt believes his approach is best, Red believes their approach is best, and everyone is free to test the cameras and make up their own minds.
    Last edited by David Mullen ASC; 01-04-2011 at 12:24 PM.
    David Mullen, ASC
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  #3  
    www.red.com - 8k Digital Cinema Camera
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  4. #4  
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    What gets lost in this argument is that the human eye sub samples red and blue too. A Bayer pattern sensor is so far the closest mechanical analog to how the human eye quantifies light. The optic nerves and brain are quantization samplers behind a very elegant chemical charge sensor in the form of rods for luminance and cones for chrominance. A nerve cell fires when it reaches a charge threshold.
    So the question ultimately is what is visually relevant?
     

  5. #5  
    I'd also point out that each color layer in a film stock doesn't resolve detail to equal degrees.
    David Mullen, ASC
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    http://www.davidmullenasc.com
     

  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    What gets lost in this argument is that the human eye sub samples red and blue too. A Bayer pattern sensor is so far the closest mechanical analog to how the human eye quantifies light. The optic nerves and brain are quantization samplers behind a very elegant chemical charge sensor in the form of rods for luminance and cones for chrominance. A nerve cell fires when it reaches a charge threshold.
    So the question ultimately is what is visually relevant?
    The retina is bayer?, that´s true?
    "¿Render?... beer time!
    two Epic-X, 24"FSI 10bits, 50"Panny, Some computers; Work as Colorist, DIT and Tech Counselor.
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member Harry Clark's Avatar
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    Cones and rods. Cones and rods.
    Cheers,
    Harry
     

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  #8  
    It's not cones and rods, but cone the relative distribution of the L, M and S cones. Rods are only used for really dark vision and don't give us colour information.

    Graeme
    www.red.com - 8k Digital Cinema Camera
    Science enables stories. Stories drive science
    IPP2, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms
     

  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Clark View Post
    Cones and rods. Cones and rods.
    Cheers,
    Harry
    cones and rods in the retina, but with sub-sample?
    "¿Render?... beer time!
    two Epic-X, 24"FSI 10bits, 50"Panny, Some computers; Work as Colorist, DIT and Tech Counselor.
     

  10. #10  
    Moderator Tom Lowe's Avatar
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    Lol, are Canon and Nikon tricking people when they say their Bayer-pattern cameras are "21 Megapixels"?
     

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