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  1. #31  
    Senior Member Bing Bailey's Avatar
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    the world has moved on. EPIC's size and quality is light years ahead of this pastware
    Film, A glorious dance between Technology and Art....!
    Epic-W......
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  2. #32  
    All I can say is Graeme Nattress is one incredibly smart dude, and that I'm awfully darn glad that he's on our team. The RED team.

    Stephen
    Scarlet Dragon with Canon, Sigma, and Tokina lenses and the Optitron 2 wireless system
    First feature film, Works in Progress, out on DVD (Vanguard Cinema) and online.
    Second feature film, Terminal, scheduled for a fall 2018 release.
    Third feature film, The Tree, currently available at www.thetreemotionpicture.com.
    Fourth feature film, The Land, currently in post-production.
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  3. #33  
    I thought there was some interesting stuff in there but it had more to do with their roadmap for a 4k workflow than anything.
    It will be interesting to see how Sony ultimately tackle a 4k camera but this video seems to show more of a hypothetical approach than an actual "This is what were doing, we are the best and everyone else sucks" so who knows maybe they come out with a completely different method.
    On a side note, Road maps, this is a video of Sony talking about their road map for 4k, when I said Sony do roadmaps no one believed me but here it is Sony and their roadmaps.
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  4. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    Well, the whole funny thing is that they don't convert algorithms to work on rotated data. They don't interpolate on the greens and hence get a much lower resolution out than if they did. Basically they've traded a simpler algorithm (just chroma interpolation) for needing twice as many pixels.
    Yup. But if you wanted to make cameras that can output a realtime 4K signal, doesn't that sound like a decent tradeoff?

    Especially if you had were Sony and very extensive sensor manufacturing ability - but were a little behind in things like ASICs that do a realtime full debayer of an 18mp image?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    The reasoning behind this is probably because they spent a lot of time and effort trashing Bayer pattern colour filter array sensors, then realizing how much sense they make for imaging for high resolution motion picture cameras they had to think what to do.
    Naah, I think it's so that they can broadcast 4K sports today from a camera with today's level of simple image processing circuitry.

    Even an Epic can't output 4K in realtime, can it... well, can it?

    Personally I'd love it if you guys keep pushing the ASICs - I wouldn't be surprised at all if by the time Sony has their 4K Q67 cameras ready, you guys have an Epic Goliath Rocket Edition with 4K output.

    Bruce Allen
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  5. #35  
    Senior Member paulherrin's Avatar
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    ...tape

    i'm pretty sure i heard someone start laughing when he talked about the blurry line between tape and drives. but that might have just been me.

    really excited about sony's projectors going public. not so excited about their promotional techniques, it's pretty low. how bout those computer generated test plates? what's that? what sensor was the bayer example shot on? you won't say? how kind. oh yeah, you used a single image and put it in photoshop? okay, that's what i thought.

    grasping for the wind...
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  6. #36  
    Senior Member Jeff Coatney's Avatar
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    Clearly Sony must take an evolutionary approach to delivery of a 4K system. This may be the only way they can begin to work the problem. My fear is that from this approach, their ability to innovate a solution as ground-breaking as Red's will be limited. While their math is accurate, the paradigm they're locked into precludes dealing with data management in bold, unique ways. I really got a picture of where the rest of the industry is beginning to conceptualize their solutions to 4K. They have long established technologies that have calcified their thinking- because they want to save development money. They are pushing their legacy tech to deliver better performance. Often the path forward is only illuminated one brick at a time. I wonder what solutions they would arrive at if they were able to throw everything out the window and start with a clean sheet of paper?
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  7. #37  
    Senior Member Joseph Hutson's Avatar
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    There's too much money in Tape decks to NOT go tapeless...

    P.S. I guess this is valid for REDuser and can't be discounted as just another "Other Cameras" thread, as they bring RED into their little chat.
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  #38  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Sony has just validated 4K as the future. We like that.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

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  9. #39  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    Sony has just validated 4K as the future. We like that.
    Jim
    More industry validated standards for a 4K infrastructure is very welcome. With the terrific quality/size ratio of RedCode at acquisition and the promise of under 20mb/s 4K delivery via RedRay there is still one hill left to climb - Post. If Sony, with their large installed base can provide a mezzanine codec for 4K post that satisfies the requirements of both image fidelity from original elements and VFX material it sounds good to me.

    I would rather have Graeme's version of a 4K mezzanine codec (preferably designed for an OpenEXR wrapper) for post, but ultimately widespread acceptance is the key.

    Included in the Sony preso was a description of a "black box" called the ELLCAMI which seems very interesting for dealing with an array of source material all destined for a 4K DI path. These are the kind of tools that can drive acceptance of 4K as a reasonable trade off between cost (can be read as time just as easily) and asset value enhancement.

    All ahead 4K.

    Oh, and BTW, the 5K oversampled Bayer image from the Epic scaled down to 4K for post should prove substantially closer to 4K in measured resolution than the current RedOne's 4K nominal sampling rate. It is my belief that smart algorithms and oversampling can easily make up any theoretical mathematical advantage of the Q67 tech vs Bayer CFA. Of course there are a number of other variables in terms of sensor performance, OLPF, etc that could mitigate the theoretical aspects tremendously - but that is a whole 'nother thread.

    Cheers - #19
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  #40  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    We don't even see theoretical advantages of Q67 over Bayer. See Graeme vs. Q67.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
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