THE M8 (008) Discussion thread

[Francesco Bonomo]

We may do that on Vimeo, or we may host it ourselves. The downside of doing it on Vimeo is we then have to put up with lots of postings from young 5D trolls and FUDmasters - who bought a 5D, shot a little with it, and now they seem to think they're all world class DP's and footage critics. To them I'd simply quote an ancient Chinese proverb: "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt".

Steve, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm afraid you would have the same problem posting the 1080p version. Some "5D world class DP" (rotfl) would download it, and post his comments on some forum/blog no matter what. You just cannot avoid these things.

We're happy to help everyone here - but we never had to do what we've done - still photos, BTS videos, frames form the camera, and this last edited video - we all donated out time and did it simply to benefit this community.

And I would say the majority of people here or elsewhere appreciate that, because no one should take these things for granted (besides, as I wrote before, at least to me those Zion canyon shots look pretty awesome).
But, the moment you put the footage up, unfortunately you should expect that kind of BS. I think a big part of it is anxiety from some who really would love to put their hands on Epic right now, some it's frustration from those who will NEVER get anywhere near it, and some of it comes from ignorance. It's the internet.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Steve, it is possible to change your Vimeo settings so that no one can comment on your videos except your "personal contacts". You can do this for each uploaded video individually in the Settings.

I have to say that I appreciate all your efforts, along with Ketch's, Dino's, Michael's, Joseph's, Pamala's, your colorists, etc. tremendously. Your willingness to share your knowledge and experience as you evaluate this new technology is priceless to someone like me who will not be able to get my hands on an Epic for a long, long time. Thank you for your hard work and dedication!!

Thanks Tom ;)

Already changed the setting and deleted all the trolls comments ;)

1080p Download will only be enable upon's Steve's authorization, as He said, this was a collaborative effort,
but the footage was shot entirely By him, and He holds the rights to it ;)

If and when Steve says yes, all I have left to do is push a Button ;)

[Steve Gibby]

Steve, it is possible to change your Vimeo settings so that no one can comment on your videos except your "personal contacts". You can do this for each uploaded video individually in the Settings.

I have to say that I appreciate all your efforts, along with Ketch's, Dino's, Michael's, Joseph's, Pamala's, your colorists, etc. tremendously. Your willingness to share your knowledge and experience as you evaluate this new technology is priceless to someone like me who will not be able to get my hands on an Epic for a long, long time. Thank you for your hard work and dedication!!

Hmmm...we'll check out the possibilities with the Vimeo downloads

Thank you for those very kind words for our crew and my good friend Dino. Its posts like yours that really remind us that our hard work has been appreciated. If the roles were reversed, I'm sure you would step up for the community and do what we've been trying to do here. In fact, I feel that almost any members here on Red User would do the same if they were in our position. That's what really make Red User a solid community of people who share when given the chance!

Don't assume you won't get your hands on an Epic for a long, long, time. You should plan to come to NAB in April. Red will have a booth there, with lots of cameras, and be showing Epic footage in 4k. My ranch is just over 2 hours north of Vegas and I'll definitely be at NAB. If I have a Epic with me there, I'd be happy to let you shoot some footage with it.

[David Dennis]

Doesn't 1080P video also get heavily compressed by Vimeo, and thus not give the quality that we're all looking for? I assumed that was why Steve didn't want to show off 1080P through Vimeo, but through Ketch's site where you have full control over the resolution and quality.

Have you shoulder mounted it yet, and if so what is needed to do so and how does it feel? I'm really curious about how much the additional accessories needed for shoulder mount would cost on an Epic ... any details on that?

D

[Tom Greenberg]

Thank you for those very kind words for our crew and my good friend Dino. Its posts like yours that really remind us that our hard work has been appreciated. If the roles were reversed, I'm sure you would step up for the community and do what we've been trying to do here. In fact, I feel that almost any members here on Red User would do the same if they were in our position. That's what really make Red User a solid community of people who share when given the chance!

Don't assume you won't get your hands on an Epic for a long, long, time. You should plan to come to NAB in April. Red will have a booth there, with lots of cameras, and be showing Epic footage in 4k. My ranch is just over 2 hours north of Vegas and I'll definitely be at NAB. If I have a Epic with me there, I'd be happy to let you shoot some footage with it.

Steve, I'm going to try to make it to NAB if I can fit it into my teaching schedule. It's been a few years since I've been out there (I went to over 20 NAB's in a row, then burned out on it and stopped going). I'd love to take you up on that offer to get some hands-on Epic time and seeing footage at 4k is a high priority. We're about the same age, so I clearly remember the time before the Internet, when new product information wasn't readily available at the click of a mouse, or a quick Google search. It makes me truly appreciate how much effort you all have put into to sharing with those of us who are eagerly watching over your shoulders. Thanks again, you guys rock!

[Steve Gibby]

I don't know what it is about being anonymous on the Internet that makes people think they can say crap they would never say to someone's face. I call it "keyboard courage".

Yup...everyone is an expert and gets real brave behind a keyboard :)

The key to learning for all of us is this: "The more we learn, the more we should realize we don't know!". Once we feel we have all the answers we simply stop learning - and our competitors in this industry who keep learning then pass us by. This is a dynamic industry, in that equipment, technology, techniques, and possibilities evolve very rapidly. Even after a long career in this industry I get out of bed each day expecting to learn a lot of new things that day. If I don't, I'm way disappointed and redouble my efforts the next day. Nobody has all the answers - and nobody ever will. Its too big of a task. But we all need to stay with it each day - and be teachable - then what we don't know, we just need to know how and where we can find it quickly. That's where boards like Red User (and many others) come in way handy.

Hopefully these emerging 5D "DP's" with "know it all" attitudes, will at some point get a handle on the principles outlined in my paragraph above. It will go a long way toward helping them survive and grow in this industry. This is an industry where someone's attitude toward others and toward knowledgeable veterans either makes or breaks a newbie's career. It's a big, but very small, industry. Word travels fast about people with cocky attitudes and those who don't show respect for the industry veterans. Smart newcomers give respect and are teachable - or they simply won't last in this industry.

[Steve Gibby]

Doesn't 1080P video also get heavily compressed by Vimeo, and thus not give the quality that we're all looking for? I assumed that was why Steve didn't want to show off 1080P through Vimeo, but through Ketch's site where you have full control over the resolution and quality.

Have you shoulder mounted it yet, and if so what is needed to do so and how does it feel? I'm really curious about how much the additional accessories needed for shoulder mount would cost on an Epic ... any details on that?

D

Very true Dennis. That's why we're evaluating our options for the 1080p download.

I wanted badly to shoulder mount Epic M8 last week here. The new Red shoulder mount system wasn't ready to ship yet, so that wasn't an option. Several months ago I remember briefly trying out a prototype of that Red shoulder mount with a dummy Epic on it. It was really well designed, balanced way well on my shoulder, and I was even able to walk around the room hands free with it on my shoulder. I'll look forward to getting one of those when they're ready and putting it into use :)

We had an ET Mantis here last week, and I intended to put Epic M8 on it too - but we simply ran out of time to do that. I was one of the prototype testers for the Mantis, and have used one extensively with my Red One cameras. I really like the Mantis.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Doesn't 1080P video also get heavily compressed by Vimeo, and thus not give the quality that we're all looking for? I assumed that was why Steve didn't want to show off 1080P through Vimeo, but through Ketch's site where you have full control over the resolution and quality.
D

Correct David,

even the 1080p gets compressed upon upload, as it is the Vimeo that has their settings to save Bandwidth, which compression is applied,
and even so I was surprised to see that they use Amazon S3, this also explain the compression algorithms, they
need to save on that Bandwidth ;)

A solution is in the works, working very hard on a Re-Build for KETCH ROSSi STUDiOS
and having our own Server will allow for a very Large capacity, and avoiding Bottlenecking and the crashing of our site
again and again during the pick time when a videos first goes live and ton of Visitors upload all at once.

We are looking forward for this permanent solution with our site so to provide our visitors with a greater visual experience ;)

Hung in there... or here ;)

Steve, Ketch, can’t express gratitude for your work, thank you and thank you to your team.

Thanks Andrew ;)

[Steve Gibby]

Thank you Andrew...

You're right on that. We'll work on posting some more samples.

Each shot sequence I shot was calculated to push the camera - in other words to challenge the sensor with high contrast
/high detail scenes (Zion National Park), dark scenes (tunnel), and light/dark/detail scenes (snow scenes). We didn't set out to create a masterpiece - but simply to push the camera's capabilities for what I mentioned, in a variety of frame rates.

[Meryem Ersoz]

what was the speed of the lens which you used to capture the tunnel shot?

my favorite shot is the last one, where the boarder claps his hands, and you can see detail in the snow crystals...not many cameras will still show that kind of detail when you downrez, those details usually just look like diffusion or blobby.

thanks for posting the footage. my only wish to see "something different" would be to see human close-ups - some eyes (for sharpness and facial detail) and some skin tones - everyone was all bundled up tight and wearing googles!

as tests of DR, motion handling, and lowlight, these serve us very well. thanks, team!