PL Mount and data connection

[Harry Clark]

No. I'm still happy about the camera overall. :) And looking forward to that email about #344.
And sorry about the tone; I get excited about the possibilities and dream the dream and then any little percieved setback gets me going.
And yes, my bad, I keep calling it LDS but what I mean (and mostly care about since I own S4s) is "i".
I think that the way Les at ZGC explained it to me is that "i" is an open platform and Arri's LDS is closed and for all practical purposes impossible to implement by outsiders... yes?
Cheers,
Harry

[Jarred Land]

no worries Harry.. we are here to help. Just want to make sure the camera lives up to your expectations.

[Bill Goehring]

I'm excited that the drives seem ready and that 16 gig cards are available.

Are these two things true? If it's been announced by RED that either the RED DRIVE or 16GB cards are available, I've missed it.

I ask because I expect to begin production on a documentary based on interviews as soon as I receive #348, and being constrained to four-minute loads (or there abouts) will greatly diminish the usability of the RED ONE for my immediate purposes.

[Wes Printz]

And just so we are clear... RED is not an LDS system... RED is an /i system. The first protocol we will support is the /i system.

Thanks for the explanation as to why only one set of contacts, not both. Cooke /i support only, makes sense now.... who's making the lenses???

[Jarred Land]

LDS is (currently) a closed proprietary system, where the /i system is an open standard so other companies can adopt it like (like Red), which is how we put it on our zooms and on our camera. Its the same signals and the same contacts, just different info moving back and forth.

[Greg M]

LDS is (currently)

So Jarred, is this a hint at the future for my LDS Ultra Primes?

[Mark Pedersen]

LDS is (currently) a closed proprietary system, where the /i system is an open standard so other companies can adopt it like (like Red), which is how we put it on our zooms and on our camera. Its the same signals and the same contacts, just different info moving back and forth.

Jarred,

So by a closed system, are you saying Arri won't open it's software interfaces or APIs to other camera manufacturers? But their cameras will accept the data from Cooke /i lenses? So a one way street in?

According to the Cooke press release:
http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/press/ibc2003:

"Cooke and Arri have agreed to make the new Cooke S4/i system compatible with Arri cameras equipped with Arri's Lens Data System (LDS). This cooperative effort will allow Cooke S4/i information to be available directly via the Arri Lens Mount contacts."

According to the Cooke s4 /i communications protocols PDF, the systems are physically compatible if not identical. Clearly there must be a level of software compatibility between the systems if the data is interoperating on the Arri camera.

Currious why, if Arri is cooperating with Cooke to allow their lenses to send input into their camera, that they wouldn't commiserate and open up their software protocols to other camera manufacturers (like Red) so they would benefit from lens sales targeted at non-Arri bodies. Is it because they see other camera manufacturers as competitors—unlike Cooke, which is solely an optics company? (Apparently Arri must not make much on sales of Arri/Zeiss LDS lenses!)

I hope they soon realize that the industry would benefit from a common lens data protocol. I seriously doubt if it would impact sales of their film cameras in any way, and in fact, could potentially enhance sales because the entire industry advances.

Your thoughts?

Any discussions with Arri attempting to open up their system?

[Jarred Land]

thats what i think i said.. the connections are both the same, its just different data.

We have no problem working with Arri, or no problem working to get LDS integrated, but its not that simple.. its one thing to get lenses to talk to to an Arri body because Arri still controls the data... its another thing for Arri to give us the keys to the protocol to implement into our camera. And the ball isnt just in Arri's court , we need to allocate the resources for development and integration.

[Mark Pedersen]

Understood. So for someone contemplating Zeiss/Arri lenses with LDS, is it a reasonable expectation that once other priorities are addressed that Red will make a concerted effort to incorporate Arri's LDS system as well as Cooke /i?

Or should we assume that Red will not support LDS in the future, so if we want a lens system capable of providing metadata, we need to choose Cooke or Red glass?

I know these are ultimately business decisions—and ultimately you may or may not have control of the situation with Arri opening up their protocol, but it would be nice for those of us facing business decisions regarding lenses to know what the Red product roadmap looks like.

Any guidance or at least intent would be helpful.

BTW, it would also be great to get an update on the Red primes. I know you guys have your hands full, but again, to make a decision between Cooke/Arri and Red, it would be helpful to at least know what the target specs are for the Red primes (T-stop, number of diaphragm blades, are they all the same length with consistent focus/iris gears, etc.).. any "tease" would keep us faithful going :)

I have a set on order and hope they will perform exceptionally well against the incumbents.

[Jarred Land]

i know its not the answers your looking for Mark, but there is no real answers to your above questions.. i could make up answers for you, but i would just be, well, making up answers.

I can tell you one thing though.. if you ordered a prime set its gonna be hard for you to be disappointed.. they are heads and shoulders better than what we showed at NAB.