Well said. Indeed not specific to Red.
In a past scenario, the Red camera was blamed when the problem was using unauthorized CF cards.
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11-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Well said. Indeed not specific to Red.
In a past scenario, the Red camera was blamed when the problem was using unauthorized CF cards.
11-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Skintone/make up issues show up on film also.
Not necessarily the same but it's generally a combination of light type (spikey is worse) vs makeup types vs spectral responses of the medium.
11-08-2011, 12:09 PM
I get that with my Nikon D60 all the time too (yellow patches on the face). I hate it. I'm beginning to dislike CMOS. That is the common denominator here. Is there some white paper that explains this real world discoloration of skin tones on cmos sensors?
11-08-2011, 12:20 PM
We had this issue on the first episode of the show I'm working on. It was obvious one some people and non existent on others. The makeup department changed to a different kind of makeup at least for the problematic skin tones. Problem has not reappeared since. I do not know what the specific brands were.
And regarding different tint values at different kelvin settings, that is definitely the case, which is why it is so important that you white balance either in camera or in post before final color correction. Doing so will help minimize these skin tone issues somewhat. I know this is a totally separate discussion but it is mildly related because if you don't get the tint setting correct, you are almost never going to get the skin tone contrast to come out right.
Tim
11-10-2011, 02:35 AM
I've noticed this with certain CCD pickups as well. X Factor on Fox here in the U.S. has had certain judges with very yellow fleshtones, which is something I've never seen to this degree. I think it's a combination of pickup, exposure, lighting, camera settings, and makeup.Originally Posted by Tim Sutherland
Careful testing can avoid this problem. We can solve it to some degree with color correction (pulling a soft secondary key), but that only works with a finished show, not in a live situation.
11-10-2011, 04:21 AM
Ah...
See...
The sensor prefers daylight (Like every CMOS or CCD generally) ...I'm glad you found this. I've been using min 1/8th 1/4 or halfs for anything tungsten with great results.
David
11-10-2011, 06:34 AM
the 80C definitely helps. so does using 'red color 2'. this color space
definitely gives a much 'cleaner' look.
the 80C is by the way also very helpful whenever shooting greenscreen under tungsten conditions.
we did some tests and were able to pull much cleaner keys.
11-10-2011, 06:36 AM
hey dean,
indeed but that does not seem to be the problem here. we did test shoots with 35mm stills and on my Red and the problem
was definitely camera / Cmos related.
11-10-2011, 09:10 AM
we did some extensive test for a feature a year ago, and our conclusion was that makeup plays the key role.
We had a great make up artist, who tried out different kinds of makeup products and the difference was huge !
Unfortunately I can´t post any pictures but believe me it was an eye-opener.
I´m not an makeup artist, but i´ll try to explain the background for that issue.
The artist told me that there are basically two types of make up one is kinda "fat" based the other one is silicone based,
the "fat" based is mainly in use for theater and stage since it "adds" to the face and is better for large expressions.
The silicone based is more "suited" towards movie and TV, since it does´t add so much but just gently smoothes out skin.
Problem with some of the silicone based brands is that there are green pigments in it, since green is contrary color to red, and therefore is used to pale down reddish skin.
We tested using different cameras (alexa, Red MX, 5D, SI2K, and generally one can say that CMOS Cameras with a Bayer pattern are more sensitive to this green pigments in the makeup than film and CCD Cameras (F23 in this case).
We had the best experience with the two Brands: BEN NYE as well as NUMERIC PROOF PARIS
This was by no means a scientific test, but served our purpose very well, and showed us how much makeup takes a role in getting natural skin tones.
maybe that can help somehow.
Manuel
11-10-2011, 10:29 AM
I disagree. I've seen it on film, dslrs, ccd, alexa and sony cameras.
One the the premiere colorists also mentioned he sees it on film also.
The cause comes from metamerism between the makeup pigments and skin.
When the makeup combined with a light source will have different spectral
reflectances that are then are received by the capture medium's (film, ccd, cmos, eye)
spectral response.
The greater metameric mismatches, the more the color of the skin vs the makeup start to shift away from each other.
Some pigments are very prone to this and others vary alot depending on the light source.
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