Makeup showing up with greenish hue

[Ron Smith]

Weird, I don't see any green except for some yellow-greenish hues on the hair.

The skin tone is actually not showing any green hues but rather it is heading towards the yellow. I double checked with photoshop and scanned the HSV values and they confirm that it is correct. Anybody else see it the same way?

[Eric Haase]

Axel, I've had these makeup issues for a long time shooting RED now (and ReD MX of course). Certain types of makeup show up very orange/green and can appear splotchy. There is a noticeable separation between the makeup tone and skin tone and this has nothing to do with the application. Shooting the same makeup under the same lighting with a 5D or an Alexa or an F900 does not produce the same result- in fact the other cameras' images look fine.

I have had this issue shooting celebrity talent for national spots with experienced makeup artists. It's burned me a bunch of times when the talent comes out on set and everyone looks at the monitor and sees a green face and pink body. It's a difficult situation when the makeup artist says that this is always how the actress's makeup is done and it always looks fine. In these cases it is their first time shooting RED. They of course say it must be the lighting. It has cost us time and headache in the past and continues to pose a problem. Some makeup artists are familiar with the issue already. There are a few workarounds.

I've found that orange and yellow base makeup are problematic. The problem seems to be exarcebated under tungsten lighting, and any LED lighting with slightly green spike compounds the problem even further.

In the days before the shoot I ring the makeup artist(s) and discuss the idea of not using yellow or orange base makeup. Even though it is counter to some makeup strategies with certain skin tones I ask them to use warmer, more pinkish hues or neutral tones.

When possible I try to use a bluish filter in front of the lens- as heavy as possible without compromising the desired shooting stop. It seems to help a bit.

Processing the footage in RedGamma2 and RedColor2 seems to help a little but ultimately you just end up with more desaturated skin tones. If you want saturated skin tones and dial the saturation back in while using rg2 and rc2 the problem just returns with the same severity as when processing red gamma/redcolor.

This makeup issue continues to be a problem on almost every shoot. It seems to be a sensor issue since other cameras side by side do not yield similar results. I hope that ReD R&D will look at this issue at some point.

The only way to grade out the problem is with a power window over the affected area. (other than greatly desaturating the skin tones overall).

[CJ Roy]

Eric's absolutely right. I deal with this more often than I'd like.

There's something about yellow based make-up + tungsten that the R1/MX picks up. To the eye, you can see it, but it's nowhere near as bad as it is on the red.

The closer to 5000k you can get, the better it'll be. If you can also talk to the make-up artist, ask to avoid the yellow-based stuff as much as possible. It seems to go against their instincts.

[Scott Crawley]

Good info guys. Thanks

[Eric Haase]

Had another studio green screen shoot under t tungsten with celebrity talent. Spoke with the makeup artists in the morning and did a quick test on a stand in. I had enough light to use 3/4ctb filtration and had no issues with the makeup going green. I think the blue filtration really helped. Unfortunately, you don't always have the light output to use blue filtration, but it's easier at 800 iso than it used to be!

[axel ebermann]

Hey guys,

Thank you so much for your input. After running a series of test and paying close attention to it I came to one (sadly unsatisfying) conclusion: Shoot daylight.
I have seen the same problem on other Cmos cameras too by the way (like the 5D) - but not as pronounced as on the Red ....

Axel, I've had these makeup issues for a long time shooting RED now (and ReD MX of course). Certain types of makeup show up very orange/green and can appear splotchy. There is a noticeable separation between the makeup tone and skin tone and this has nothing to do with the application. Shooting the same makeup under the same lighting with a 5D or an Alexa or an F900 does not produce the same result- in fact the other cameras' images look fine.

I have had this issue shooting celebrity talent for national spots with experienced makeup artists. It's burned me a bunch of times when the talent comes out on set and everyone looks at the monitor and sees a green face and pink body. It's a difficult situation when the makeup artist says that this is always how the actress's makeup is done and it always looks fine. In these cases it is their first time shooting RED. They of course say it must be the lighting. It has cost us time and headache in the past and continues to pose a problem. Some makeup artists are familiar with the issue already. There are a few workarounds.

I've found that orange and yellow base makeup are problematic. The problem seems to be exarcebated under tungsten lighting, and any LED lighting with slightly green spike compounds the problem even further.

In the days before the shoot I ring the makeup artist(s) and discuss the idea of not using yellow or orange base makeup. Even though it is counter to some makeup strategies with certain skin tones I ask them to use warmer, more pinkish hues or neutral tones.

When possible I try to use a bluish filter in front of the lens- as heavy as possible without compromising the desired shooting stop. It seems to help a bit.

Processing the footage in RedGamma2 and RedColor2 seems to help a little but ultimately you just end up with more desaturated skin tones. If you want saturated skin tones and dial the saturation back in while using rg2 and rc2 the problem just returns with the same severity as when processing red gamma/redcolor.

This makeup issue continues to be a problem on almost every shoot. It seems to be a sensor issue since other cameras side by side do not yield similar results. I hope that ReD R&D will look at this issue at some point.

The only way to grade out the problem is with a power window over the affected area. (other than greatly desaturating the skin tones overall).

[Eric Haase]

just another follow up. More studio tungsten work and I had a chance to look at with and without blue filter. The blue filter definitely helps this issue.

I'm not sure why this issue isn't discussed more. It makes shooting under tungsten light a huge gamble. Your actor walks onto set and they look green/orange in the face with a distinct difference in the face tones with makeup and the rest of the body. Sometimes we plan on shooting at a T2.8 at 800 (optimo zooms) and don't necessarily have the light level to use a blue filter. Even just the 1/4 ctb filter cuts 1/2 to 2/3 of a stop. Such a huge bummer since the time you really need the high iso low light performance is when you are using tungsten lights (night interiors/exteriors i'm looking at you).

I sincerely hope this issue is being looked at in terms of future sensor development. Maybe it can be solved (or partially solved) in the color science. I think this issue is one of the reason a lot of people talk about poor performance in skin tones with RED and RED MX. I know when I have a beauty shoot I'd feel much better shooting Alexa, knowing I won't be battling troublesome skin tones under tungsten light.

[axel ebermann]

I also do not know why this is not discussed more. Skin color is absolutely significant.
I just got a 80C filter (half blue), makes a big difference. and brings my iso back down
to 400...

[Eric Haase]

80c will work. I have the entire 82 and 80 series (also 81s for warmth). But now they have 1/4ctb and 1/2ctb also. Really all the same as they are varying intensities of blue.

Anyone from ReD here that can comment on this issue?

[Evin Grant]

I'm on an Alexa show at the moment and we're having plenty of skin tone issues too, it's by no means specific to Red.