RedCine feedback..

[Antoine Baumann]

Thanks a lot Rob.

antoine.

[Antoine Baumann]

Ok one day testing I've got a few comment

so far it woks as good under xp64 than xp32, under xp64 it is slower to start REDCINE, but I have the same behaviour with blender. Once started it works very well.

One other difference, but not sure it comes from the os, or from the video card driver, I had the nice surprise to have REDCINE displayed on the two monitors.

About exporting, a few qt codecs doesn't work, so far I have problem with
-avid DNxHD
-avid Meridien (compressed and uncompressed)
-all blackmagic (well I haven't tested all, but all I've tested won't work)
-BlueFish
when I say won't work, it means the images are there, and the whole shot, but it is like a very nasty color snow noise all over the images. And that's exactly the same result for all the codecs.

The qt codecs that worked for me:
- Avid 1:1x
- Avid DV100
- CineForm
- Motion jpeg A
- Animation
- DVCPro
- Jpeg2K
- H264
So, I would say that all native qt codec seems to be ok (well they still have the "QT: Failed to get the compression data size (error -50).."
see my post here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...716#post111716
But you get usable images.

There's a bug, when you choose image seq as output format (at least with dpx, but if I remember well with all image seq). Once output is done, you cannot change the format to something else. I had to go to project module and change the resolution (then for my purpose I setted back to what it was), and after that i could change the output format again. This, I've experimented on two machines (one with xp32 and the other with xp64).

First impressions on the hardware needed: yes you need powerfull cpus, yes you need powerfull gpu and yes you need fast drives.
It took me longer to output 8bit tiff that jpeg. Way longer for 32bit tiff.

I think that for editing puropse you need to use the "standard" quality in the output module, it it very close in quality to the "full" setting, but at a fraction of the time. There is a big step in quality when you choose "draft", and if I remember well, it wasn't quicker than the "standard" quality setting.

For offline editing in premiere pro, I haven't found yet the best codec to output to. I really think that REDCINE needs to output to avi

lot of fun using REDCINE. Thanks,
antoine.

[till]

Is this right what i understood?
gamma setting in redcine :
rec 709 for 1080p finishing
redlog/Pdlog for dpx output for filmoutput

when i switch between rec 709 and redlog/Pd log, the log version is much lighter.

Is this normal? PC side

If yes please answer following question:

when i want to finish in 1080p, i will output a quicktime, and when i want to output a dpx sequence for filmoutput for the exactly same footage, what i have to do, that the footage matches?

[till]

can you explain me these things in redcine?

1. in the top line where you can find the histogram button, on the left side
are the buttons rgbml.
What is the functionality of the M and L?
When do you use them?

2. Under Projects, if you use the yellow button, there appears another line
here you have the buttons.
samples:16, 9, 4, 1 For what and when do you use each option?
RGB, HSV, YUV, RGB LOG For what and when do you use each option,
especially when do i have do use RGB LOG.

3. under OUTPUT i can choose quicktime, under the codecs, there is again tiff
available, why?
there is no uncompressed selection, which one do i have to choose for editing quicktime uncompressed? quality setting losless i guess.

4.Under Output, Filter i can choose the filter, there you can choose between,
linear, mitchel, cubic
What are the differences and when do i use which of them?

5.Under SHOT, there is NR. What is it? what are the differences between these Options, when do i use them,

6. Under PROJECT i can choose the Colorspace Camera RGB, sRGB, Adobe 98
XYZ and again Rec 709. I thought Rec.709 is a gamma setting, not colorspace. When do i have to use Rec 709 under Colospace?


I am a really Newbie to all of this, and after my company denied to buy a red,
i will rent one to shoot some home videos together with my very ill dad....so i have just the goal to understand redcine and the red/apple quicktime thing fully. He is very ill, but he is still curious.


I will do all alone with my Dad, i have little technical background, i am just a really small fish, who wants some help.
SO PLEASE HELP ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[David Battistella]

Rob,

This software is fantastic.

Thinking toward the future I am wondering:

1. Will there be XML or edl support from FCP or AVID to be able to point back to R3D files from the quicktime proxies in a finished cut? IE open an FCP timeline in REDCINE and export the DPX files from there for finish on any number of existing 2K workflows.)

(I ask this because it would be nice if REDCINE could export a shot for shot play range of 4k or 2K DPX files and I believe this would complete an already incredible workflow)

2. Will more computer power be able to be harnessed for batch rendereing purposes (render farm?)

Thanks for such an elegant solution. Nice work.

David

[Antoine Baumann]

Hi till,

that's what I think

1) haven't tried those button actually, but it might be to display the mid value and the low value.

2) haven't see that, nice find. HSV, RGB and YUV are color space.

3) well QuickTime can export tiff and also tga sequences wrapped in a mov file. But normaly it has also an uncompressed format to choose from. Not sure why it is not in REDCINE.

4) when you scale/move/rote images you need to choose a filter that do the geometric transformation. Each filter has different characteristic.
Mitchel filter is a good balance between sharpness adn ringing, and is often the best choice when scaling an image to a larger resolution
gaussian filter is virtually free of aliasing or ringingartifacts but tend to produce noticeable softness
sinc filter does a very good job of keeping small details without introducing much aliasing. It is probably the best filter to use when scaling down.
(writen by Ron Brinkmann in The art and science of digital compositing)

5) don't know and have alreay asked....

6) there's a bit of mystery there for me as well. But what's sure is that XYZ, sRGB, Adobe 98, REC 709 are color space. Camera RGB might be the color space of the camera.

antoine.

[Rob Lohman]

Camera RGB is a color space that looks nice with the camera footage. The rec 709 spec defines both a gamma curve (close to 2.2 but with a different toe) and a color space, hence you can pick both for either. Rec 709 color space is what the HD standards use. XYZ is more for DCI digital cinema output or output to another application.

I'll let Lucas answer the other questions

[Anders Holck]

can you explain me these things in redcine?

1. in the top line where you can find the histogram button, on the left side
are the buttons rgbml.
What is the functionality of the M and L?
When do you use them?

L is luminance. You see the luminance level of the image in B/W

M is for monotone (or Monochrome). When you use the R,G,B viewing modes by default you see the channels in color, if you enable the M button you see the single channels in B/W instead. Makes it easier to judge the intensity of the different channels.

2. Under Projects, if you use the yellow button, there appears another line
here you have the buttons.
samples:16, 9, 4, 1 For what and when do you use each option?
RGB, HSV, YUV, RGB LOG For what and when do you use each option,
especially when do i have do use RGB LOG.

These are options for the color picker.
When you press the color well (The yellow button in your example) you engage the color picker.

Samples are the averaging for the pipette. 1 is sampling a single pixel. The other options are averaging additional surrounding pixels.

The RGB, HSV, YUV, RGB LOG choses what the numeric readout shows. Try sampling a value and shange the option - youll see that the readout changes.
You can also set the readout units with the button just left to the readout type, to either 8, 10, 16 bit or floats. 8 bit gives that wellknown 0-255 scale.

[till]

Hi till,

that's what I think

3) well QuickTime can export tiff and also tga sequences wrapped in a mov file. But normaly it has also an uncompressed format to choose from. Not sure why it is not in REDCINE.

antoine.

What would be the workflow?
if i want to make an offline edit, i could choose lets say dvcpro.
And for finishing in 1080p, i would export the the same footage as a quicktime with choosen codec Tiff, bring this files to FCP and then output to hdcam or whatever. Is this right?

Or has redalert the option to output uncompressed quicktime RGB?

OR WHAT IS THE BEST OUTPUT and WORKFLOW FOR FINISHING IN 1080p?

And really nobody knows how to match DPX with a Redlog Gamma and quicktimes with a REC 709 Gamma?

our artistic goal is to have our Footaga,

on a DVD-send to Friends
HD DVD- for our home
and HD Cam - just want to do it.
Filmoutput- we will rent a theater and invite the whole family

For this i thougt the best way would be to have an uncompressed 1080p quicktime RGB, and then compress to the needed format.
For HDCam and HD DVD we would deliver a posthouse a drive with the uncompressed Quicktime RGB.


Filmoutput
We will rent one day an editing suite and thought to bring the DPX
there.

BUT HOW TO GET AN UNCOMPRESSED QUICKTIME?

This is a hard task for us, but we want to succeed, and am very thankful, for the support you give us.
Thank you very much.

[Lauri Kettunen]

Rob,

For some reason REDCINE creates no log-file in my PC. More precisely, the default folder does not even exist, and if I make a search, there is no redcine log files in any folder. Second, even I install "for everyone", only the root is able to run REDCINE. For other users only the first page with the RED logo is shown. Any idea what's the problem?