Vincent Laforet

[Vincent Laforet]

Don't make Fujio angry.

I nearly choked when I read this... very very funny. Listen: I LOVE my Epic. But don't expect Canon, Nikon etc etc not to be working on their own stuff. I'll always use the best camera out there for the job regardless of who makes it. I believe in loyalty very much. But I also believe that cameras are just tools and that each has a specific strength. Pick the best camera that will help you tell the story best. Right now the Epic servers many many stories very well.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Less - sure. But every camera has its place. Once you shoot Epic it's very hard to go back to HDSLR in terms of dynamic range and image quality. But some jobs will require HDSLRs still. There is no perfect camera for every job. The Epic is close though.

Once again, welcome to the forum!

Interesting, but I may disagree.

When I played with Ketch's #0008 it was easy to handhold with a Red 17-50 on it and while its certainly bigger than my 7D, it isn't enough bigger to make any practical difference to me. Also, while its heavier and harder to handhold as a result - the resulting material from handholding is far more usable - especially with stabilization - than anything that you can get out of a 7D. (No dewarping the rolling shutter effects.)

About the only place I'll use a DSLR for motion images, once I get my own Epic. is in a situation where the camera might get destroyed. (aka crash cam) Well, perhaps if I have to turn over media after a shoot that will be a concern. I can sell cheap CF cards to clients. Can't sell RED SSD mags that easily ;)

I can definitely see using the SLR lenses as a compromise for size/weight once the mounts are available. I suppose the electronic mounts will make one man band operations easier too with touch to focus.

Anyway ... I'm writing to ask what situations you envision using the DSLR for video in?

[Vincent Laforet]

I think we're closer to being on the same page than you think.... the Epic is a PERFECT camera handheld. (Jared knows I'm dying til my name comes up in line to get my right hand grip so that I can make the camera package super tight... in fact he teases me about it!) The size / weight of the camera is perfect for steady handheld work - w/ just one hand on the top handle - and mix it w 5K footage and CS5.5's Warp feature... scary combination. It's a major reason for getting this camera in fact.

I was talking more in generalities - not everyone can afford and Epic, nor the cine glass, HDs, Rockets that come with a high end cine camera.... What do I see myself using HDSLRS for? Once I get an EF lens mount for the Epic... not too often to be honest. I have a lot of long / specialty Canon glass that I'd like to shoot with. You can remove an Epic mount in less than 30 seconds very very easily - and I think the swap to EF will be ridiculously easy - and something that can DEFINITELY be done in the field - which is just awesome. (There isn't a single wire/anything - it's incredibly well designed) Want to go from a PL Master Prime to a Canon 500mm f4? I think you can do it in under 5 minutes - even less if you mount the camera off of the lens and don't bother w/ rods etc. I know many of the Canon lenses won't measure up to cine glass - but the long glass is still pretty excellent relative to almost anything.... One should keep in mind the relative ease of the backend workflow w/ the HDSLRS in terms of HD space, speed etc. especially with CS5.5

I'm not suggesting that every gig of space the Epic shoots doesn't pay for itself in spades in terms of final image quality though of course - the image is pristine. But for some small projects using HDSLRS (especially when you have to roll for long periods of time) will work. Once all of the functions and resolutions are available on the Epic - all that will come of course - the need for HDSLRs will change. But not everyone can afford to play in this realm. Hopefully as the 2,000th Epic rolls of the line - the price might come down. Relative to other cameras right now though - the price is well worth it. I just wish more people had access to this kind of technology.

I wonder if people reading this thread have compressed the crap out of their Epic 5K footage (in the camera settings) and what they think. Shooting a full day's worth of footage w/ the Epic at 5K at 8:1 means you'll be shooting into the Terabytes real easily. I'd like to shoot some documentary footage for a project at the end of this year - and my only worry right now it data management... If you're shooting commercials or feature films - 5K 8:1+ is awesome. But if you're trying to follow someone around for 18 hours - it's too much data. I love the ability to shoot 2K - but I'd rather not have to crop into the image. If RED can enable shooting w/ the full sensor and outputting a 2K file out of it at a good compression setting / codec - a lot more people will clamor for this camera as they won't have to worry about data overload. I hope they enable this. Some things I want to shoot a 5K 8:1 - other stuff is quick and dirty for some clients and you know what I'm talking about... and you can justify an inferior quality image for. All that being said: enough people are clamoring for this camera already....

Some might say that this camera is not "intended" to shoot documentary style. While that may be true to some - I think this one killer camera for documentary work all the way up to the silver screen. You can do narrative, doc, underwater, aerial, handheld, Steadicam, and even couple a 12x Optimo to it.... And that's pretty much why I bought it.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I think you are right that we do agree.

I'm pretty excited for the Canon mount for Epic myself. I don't have a ton of special glass... but I will appreciate using the camera with small light glass sometimes. It's a perfect way to keep a camera ready to shoot and on you whenever you want it. I didn't fiddle with changing the mount when I had a chance to work with Ketch's camera, but I'm glad to hear that its as fast as team Red promised.

As far as the DSLR's & compression, I haven't used Epic at anything other than Ketch's default setting. I think that compressing the 5K image as much as practical could work out fine. For a lot of projects I was VERY happy with RC28 on the R1 non-MX. There is just so much data in Red footage that if you plan on down converting to 2K/1080p ... you can just about get away with murder. Especially if you are working to technical standards of a documentary or low end broadcast.

I mean ... if you look at HDSLR's at 50Mbps, they are 60:1 compressed compared to 3G SDI. I think if Epic had a 60:1 compression option in camera, you'd get a result that was "HDSLR bad" in 5K, but a result that would still meet high end broadcast standards at 1080p. And you could shoot all day with a 128GB SSD if need be. (Well, 280 minutes would almost always last me all day ... and 140 minutes of HDRx wouldn't be so bad either.)

I think a 30:1 mode would deliver a rough equivalent to AVC Intra if you are looking at the 5K image ... and again be really fantastic if you down convert to 2K.

I've always thought RED should offer higher compression for low end projects. This way it can be more economical to shoot 4K (and now 5K) and deliver 2K or below, yet you still have a 5K image to do some punch ins or pan and scan if needed.

[michael zaletel]

. Shooting a full day's worth of footage w/ the Epic at 5K at 8:1 means you'll be shooting into the Terabytes real easily. I'd like to shoot some documentary footage for a project at the end of this year - and my only worry right now it data management... If you're shooting commercials or feature films - 5K 8:1+ is awesome. But if you're trying to follow someone around for 18 hours - it's too much data. I love the ability to shoot 2K - but I'd rather not have to crop into the image. If RED can enable shooting w/ the full sensor and outputting a 2K file out of it at a good compression setting / codec - a lot more people will clamor for this camera as they won't have to worry about data overload. I hope they enable this.

Some might say that this camera is not "intended" to shoot documentary style. While that may be true to some - I think this one killer camera for documentary work all the way up to the silver screen. You can do narrative, doc, underwater, aerial, handheld, Steadicam, and even couple a 12x Optimo to it.... And that's pretty much why I bought it.

+1

Michael Zaletel
CEO
i4software.com
i4vegas.com
i4hotels.com

...and EPIC-M Owner :)

[Paul Hazlett]

while they might add a tad bit of weight, an off board recorder like the aja ki mini pro or the sound devices pix 240 make long shoot times to prores a reality without burying
you in data.

oops, forgot to say welcome to he club sir!, glad to have you

[albert rudnicki]

I think that for run&gun documentary style, s35mm was never a good option; 3k scarlet may be the right tool...

[gbalaji]

Next is Philip Bloom...

[C.H.Haskell]

Great Feedback and welome Vincent, really look forward to seeing your work...hit me up if your ever in NYC and need anything, or just a pint! Cheers.

[Matthew Bennett]

Bloom will love it! Then I guess we'll see an hour long video where he teaches you every feature, which will be well enjoyable to watch!