2K Scaled Is Vital

[Nick Shaw]

You could shoot 25fps and then interlace that into 50i.....

You can't reproduce the motion characteristic of 50i by shooting at 25fps, at least not without doing optical flow interpolation in post, which is less than ideal.

[Hans von Sonntag]

You could shoot 25fps and then interlace that into 50i.....

You can. Actually that happens when you dump your 35mm stuff from telecine onto Digital Betacam. But every 2 fields will be the same. Nothing accomplished unfortunately. Sorry.

Hans

[Nick Shaw]

How many times does Red have to say that 2K Scaled higher than 30fps IS NOT POSSIBLE due to the processing power needed to pull it off. It's not going to happen on Red One according to them. Red Two maybe?

I am not aware that Red have EVER said that. The full sensor can be clocked at up to 60 fps. It is only 4k REDCODE that the processing limits to 30 fps (currently 25 fps).

They have said in the past that they are considering the possibility of scaled 2k at higher frame rates, just not immediately. Scaled RAW was mooted at one point, but has not been mentioned for a while. I suspect that scaled 2k will not come until RGB recording is enabled.

[Hans von Sonntag]

I am not aware that Red have EVER said that. The full sensor can be clocked at up to 60 fps. It is only 4k REDCODE that the processing limits to 30 fps (currently 25 fps).

Yes, that's what I recall,

Hans

[Matt Uhry]

Here's an interesting project for 2k scaled nay sayers. Try taking the 4k tiff on HDFORINDIES.COM from Spain into Photoshop, Save a copy of the image and scale one of the clones from 4k to 2k and then back to 4k. Compare the images at 100% in Photoshop. Try it with other 4k images.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Hans von Sonntag]

I am in no way an engineer. But thinking how easy RED is creating 2k reference movies off the 4K Raw data I am pretty hopeful that RED will pull this off.

My concern is: Does RED really know how useful 2k Scaled is?

In my point of view 4K is brilliant to have but in reality we are talking about 1080p for high definition and 576i/486i for standard definition. How many HD DVDs are currently made (I am not talking about Hollywood blockbusters). Most TV work, commercials and corporate stuff will end up in SD.

2K is the format to go with. Do a pan/can crop and you get 1080p with some room for stabilizing/reframing and do further down-converts for DVD or broadcast.

Hans

[Damien Molineaux]

How many times does Red have to say that 2K Scaled higher than 30fps IS NOT POSSIBLE due to the processing power needed to pull it off. It's not going to happen on Red One according to them. Red Two maybe?

I am not aware that Red have EVER said that. The full sensor can be clocked at up to 60 fps. It is only 4k REDCODE that the processing limits to 30 fps (currently 25 fps).

They have said in the past that they are considering the possibility of scaled 2k at higher frame rates, just not immediately. Scaled RAW was mooted at one point, but has not been mentioned for a while. I suspect that scaled 2k will not come until RGB recording is enabled.

Red did at one point say 2k Raw scaled was no possible. Later it has been mentioned, by both Jim and Graeme, they were working on 2k Raw scaled; sorry for not posting the references, but if you do a little research you'll find them. As has been mentioned a few times "Everything subject to change, count on it". I'm sure we'll get some form of scaled recording, maybe many : ie. 2k raw and 1080p RGB. I vote for 2k raw.

Cheers,
Damien

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Here's an interesting project for 2k scaled nay sayers. Try taking the 4k tiff on HDFORINDIES.COM from Spain into Photoshop, Save a copy of the image and scale one of the clones from 4k to 2k and then back to 4k. Compare the images at 100% in Photoshop. Try it with other 4k images.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Careful I lost a candybar with that kind of talk. :sheep:

Here's a question. Is 50p possible over the HD-SDI @ 1080p? If the REDCode compression is the bottleneck perhaps a good hold-over would be to enable higher framerates out to HDCAM SR.

[Álex Montoya]

Matt, this has been already discussed: the footage at hdforindies isn't top notch. They had a problem with backfocus. Many posted footage suffers from the same issue.

There is some footage though that shows a significant resolution boost from 2K to 4K.

Under ideal conditions RED can offer an effective resolution of about 3000X1500 pixels, which to me is reason enough to shoot 4K.

[Hans von Sonntag]

The data-rate of 2K Raw is much less than 4K Raw. 50p 2K Raw will not need faster CF (even less) than 4K at 25p

Hans